BH: Who won when you were nominated for Rebel? Then we'll get off this depressing subject.

SM: Ta-da: Jack Lemmon, in Mister Roberts. I knew he'd win. BH: Coincidentally- or not -your character, Plato, was killed off in Rebel, too.

SM: Makes sense: he was, in a way, the first gay teenager in films. You watch it now, you know he had the hots for James Dean. You watch it now, and everyone knows about Jimmy, so it's like he had the hots for Natalie [Wood] and me. Ergo, I had to be bumped off, out of the way.

BH: Straight critics and audiences would mostly see that Plato was looking for a father figure, since he comes from a broken home.

SM: The brokenest! So what's the point?

BH: I think people tend to see what they want to see. Plato's feelings may be a mixture of seeking the missing father and idolizing or adoring Jim, but straights will see only the one aspect and gays will see only the other. What do you think? SM: Does that mean only bisexuals see both aspects?

BH: Could be....

SM: I do think Rebel's one of those superflicks that are all things to all people. It has so many levels.

BH: So in a sense, your career began at the top...

SM: And I've been working my way down ever since. BH: I didn't mean that. But people who peak early- like you, with your Oscar nominations within five or six years of each other- often find it difficult to live up to the early promise, right?

SM: Don't I know. . . . No, you're absolutely right. You only get a Rebel or an Exodus once in a few years, and if you can work up to that, people see you as developing. If it starts out that way, they see you as, well, regressing. Those are maybe my most famous flicks, and I played fucked-up teens in them, so guess what they kept offering me?

BH: I found Dino very touching- the best thing I've ever seen on juvenile delinquency and the vicious circle of reform schools.

SM: It was pretty decent. But you know what I liked? The Gene Krupa Story. I loved those drums, man!

BH: I haven't seen that. I almost saw one of yours called Tonka. Didn't have any idea what it was about, but I used to play with Tonka trucks when I was a kid, so...

SM: Why didn't you see it?

BH: I went out on a date that night.

SM: So tell me.

BH: I had a date with this girl on Saturday night, but she wanted to change it to Friday, because of a family visit. But I'm sure I'll catch up with Tonka someday.

SM: Eh, don't bother. If you've got a heavy date, go with it, man. Or her, or him, or whatever.

BH: Do you think bisexuality is the true norm?

SM: You mean do I think everyone's bi? Yeah. . . if they'd be honest about it, or try it. How about you?

BH: I don't think one can generalize about people that way. SM: How about you personally?

BH: I've been attracted to both. . . . Now, back to your career. Did you think of yourself as a sex symbol?

SM: An SS? (laughs.) Not after I made Exodus. You know, Otto sounds like a Nazi, and he's a tough buzzard, but he's got a great heart. Nice man. . . . What were we talking about? Oh, yeah. Did or do I consider myself sexy?

BH: Do you consider yourself a sex symbol?

SM: Only when I'm alone and lonely... if you know what I mean.

BH: Who doesn't?

SM: Oh, I know a few devout Sicilians who don't. . . BH: Priests?

SM: Are you kidding? Nuns. Priests do it right and left- there's more gay priests than you can figure. Why do you think the Church is so down on priests?

BH: Appearances?

SM: Yeah, that and the clothes they wear. Anyway, I don't want to offend anybody here.