Rhoda
James Williams 
I used to watch this after MTM on Nick at Nite, too.
I love it dearly still. I own all four seasons released. The 5th season is only available online (YouTube).
I hate that it ended so unceremoniously.
Rhoda deserved better.
| by Anonymous | reply 71 | August 9, 2020 3:27 PM |
Rhoda was interesting in that it started great, got boring quick then lost it's way. Rhoda and Joe was "Mad About You" 15 years too soon.
However Rhoda did get BETTER as the years progressed and by Season 5 it was back to the level of season one which is unusual but by then it had lost all steam and like most of the sophisticated comedies of the early 70s gave way to the ABC comedies of Laverne and Shirely and Three's Company type.
| by Anonymous | reply 1 | December 16, 2016 10:20 PM |
Rhoda and Phyllis both started off strong, but got stank real quick. When Rhoda married Joe, the show jumped the shark. When Mother Dexter died, Phyllis went downhill.
| by Anonymous | reply 2 | December 16, 2016 10:22 PM |
This episode is why I love Rhoda: Vivian Vance still had it, even though she was obviously in ill health.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 3 | December 16, 2016 10:29 PM |
EST ruined Valerie Harper.
| by Anonymous | reply 4 | December 16, 2016 10:39 PM |
Rhoda also started making Brenda the star of the show and what a mistake that was. First of all, her apartment was ridiculously claustrophobic. Second, that whiny delivery works on the Simpsons but it was terrible to listen to on this sitcom. All of a sudden, she was Rhoda to Rhoda's MTM and the show totally lost its way.
| by Anonymous | reply 5 | December 16, 2016 10:39 PM |
R1 This. It actually got way better after she and Joe broke up.
Mary's who I Want be; Rhoda is who I am.
I was born in the Bronx and grew up in Grand Concourse, too! :-)
| by Anonymous | reply 6 | December 16, 2016 10:44 PM |
R5 Everybody loves Brenda, bitch.
| by Anonymous | reply 7 | December 16, 2016 10:45 PM |
It always surprised me that the guy who played Joe, David Groh never found work in a another TV series.
And Ray Buktenica and Ron Silver looked too much alike and were no substitute for David Groh.
| by Anonymous | reply 8 | December 16, 2016 10:45 PM |
I found Joe very sexy. Still do.
| by Anonymous | reply 9 | December 16, 2016 10:53 PM |
David Groh was blacklisted after Rhoda, mainly because he lacked the ability to portray a realistic human being on screen.
He became an acting teacher instead.
| by Anonymous | reply 10 | December 16, 2016 11:20 PM |
R10, Bullshit. His resume is very long after Rhoda.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 11 | December 17, 2016 12:09 AM |
Groh was supposedly very active in the baths.
| by Anonymous | reply 12 | December 17, 2016 1:32 AM |
That Ida Morganstern was such a nasty old frau. Typical jewish bitch.
| by Anonymous | reply 14 | December 17, 2016 1:47 AM |
David Groh with his masculine looks and hairy chest was pretty hot back in the day. Remember when he used to beat Bobbie on GH? Some way that's what forced JZ's face to get so fucked up.
| by Anonymous | reply 16 | December 22, 2016 6:21 PM |
David Groh is pretty good (as far as daytime went at the time) as DL Brock on GH. A real villain.
Rhoda was ok, up until the wedding. I think one of the funniest jokes on a sitcom ever was- Rhoda is in the hallway of the apartment complex she grew up in, she's wearing her bridal gown and veil. An older lady with rats nest hear, a house coat, and a cigarette walks out, carrying garbage. She looks at Rhoda (in her bridal gown) and goes "RHODA!! What's new?"
It was downhill from there. The married episodes are just the pits. Brenda became the new Rhoda and Rhoda became Mary. It just didn't work and David Groh had zero comedic ability.
After the divorce, she show picks up somewhat focusing on the dating and professional lives of Rhoda and Brenda. In the last season they brought in a faux-Lou Grant for Rhoda, which didn't work either.
Most disturbingly, in the later seasons Valerie Harper looks painfully thin. Her face becomes all gaunt and she is skin and bones. Was it all those fat jokes on MTM? Or was it EST? The gauntness made her unfunny
| by Anonymous | reply 17 | December 22, 2016 7:41 PM |
R17 Harper was struggling with an eating disorder. She speaks of it in some interviews. She did look scary.
Still, I love all of Rhoda's episodes, even the less than great ones.
| by Anonymous | reply 18 | December 22, 2016 8:01 PM |
Rhode getting a divorce ruined the show.
| by Anonymous | reply 19 | December 22, 2016 8:52 PM |
No, Rhoda getting married ruined it. She lost her edge and vulnerability. Harper was surprisingly unlikable at this stage. She knew how to play Rhoda Morgenstern but not Rhoda Girard. Now if they had come up with an actor she could play off of, that might have been different. Steve Franken who played Jonas on MTM was the sort of nebbishy guy that you imagined Rhoda with, not some hairy chested hunk with a bad temper.
| by Anonymous | reply 20 | December 22, 2016 9:29 PM |
R19 Some of my favorite episodes are just before, during and after the divorce. The got really interesting, especially when exploring Rhoda's fading and failing marriage. Poignant stuff.
| by Anonymous | reply 21 | December 22, 2016 9:30 PM |
R21, but that's not what we signed up for with Rhoda. For them to go all serious and introspective when it was obvious it was for ratings was pitiful. The more melodramatic the show got, the more the show forgot the character. And I'm still not even sure why they split up and eventually divorced. Then again, we don't especially know why Joe and Rhoda got together in the first place. Instead of Groh, the other finalist was William Devane so the producers really didn't know what they were doing.
| by Anonymous | reply 23 | December 22, 2016 9:40 PM |
Marrying Rhoda off so early in the series was a mistake.
If they were intent on marrying her, it definitely should not have taken place any earlier than the end of the first season (as the season finale, although they really didn't do season finale episodes in the 70s). Prefereably, the marriage shouldn't have taken place until the third season or so.
| by Anonymous | reply 24 | December 22, 2016 9:56 PM |
Wasn't the FIRST episode of Rhoda her wedding?
How did it "get worse after she got married" of the wedding was the first episode?
I loved every second of it. The vast supporting cast of expert comic actors made it great.
Remember Johnny Venture?
| by Anonymous | reply 25 | December 22, 2016 10:54 PM |
big fan of Rhoda, but even bigger fan of Joe and his hairy chest. and like all greats, is sadly gone...
| by Anonymous | reply 26 | December 22, 2016 11:08 PM |
r25 Rhoda's wedding was the 8th episode of the series.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 28 | December 23, 2016 11:50 AM |
I remember when she started incorporating EST bullshit into the show: deadly. She's always been a bit "difficult" apparently, considering she was fired from a different show later on and replaced with a one-eyed starlet. And then the death tour.
| by Anonymous | reply 29 | December 23, 2016 11:57 AM |
I remember David Groh as perfect casting for Joe. Very believable as a hunky working class Jewish guy, a type not previously seen much (or ever?) on TV. He was not a particularly funny actor but was obviously cast to be the straight man for Rhoda, Brenda and Ida. He really could have become the MTM of the series though he was barely used that way. IIRC he was mostly just seen coming and going from work, impassably bemused by the goings on of the Morgenstern ladies.
They never made Rhoda into a workplace sitcom. I wonder why not? It would have been far easier to introduce some quirkier characters into the storylines, a la MTM.
| by Anonymous | reply 30 | December 23, 2016 2:44 PM |
[quote]Very believable as a hunky working class Jewish guy,
Joe wasn't Jewish, David Groh was but not Joe.
| by Anonymous | reply 31 | December 23, 2016 2:59 PM |
R30 They actually did, starting with season 3 or 4, I belzieve. After the divorce.
| by Anonymous | reply 32 | December 23, 2016 3:09 PM |
I hated when this was on Nick at Nite. I had to be desperate to watch it.
| by Anonymous | reply 33 | December 23, 2016 3:12 PM |
The most hilarious moment ever was with Carlton the doorman, whom we never saw, apart from a party scene at the end, we see his back only and Rhoda or someone says "I'll take off my mask if you take off yours" and Carlton says "I'm not wearing a mask" so we were left wondering what he looked like.
| by Anonymous | reply 34 | December 23, 2016 3:24 PM |
R34, it probably wasn't that memorable to you since you got it wrong. There was a Halloween party and Carlton was at the party wearing a costume and talking to an old lady. He told her at the stroke of midnight, he'll take off his mask and she'll take off hers. She informed him that she wasn't wearing one and he got up and walked out. The old lady asked "who was that masked man?"
| by Anonymous | reply 35 | December 23, 2016 3:34 PM |
Carlton was also the voice of Garfield.
| by Anonymous | reply 36 | December 23, 2016 3:41 PM |
Carlton was played by Lorenzo Music and he and his wife had a brief, syndicated show called "The Lorenzo and Henrietta Music Show", which was an attempt at a talk variety show. It was terrible, they were terrible and people agreed he should not have been seen on camera.
| by Anonymous | reply 37 | December 23, 2016 3:49 PM |
Here are the madcap Musics.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 39 | December 23, 2016 4:27 PM |
Are you sure that isn't the Captain and Tennille without the cap?
| by Anonymous | reply 40 | December 23, 2016 7:46 PM |
The first 8 episodes or so were stellar. And then Rhoda and Joe got married and the laughs seemed to disappear.
| by Anonymous | reply 41 | December 23, 2016 8:00 PM |
You could practically smell Ida's musty old snatch through the tv!
| by Anonymous | reply 42 | December 23, 2016 8:05 PM |
Well, we can definitely smell yours now.
| by Anonymous | reply 43 | December 23, 2016 8:21 PM |
Remember Ida also left when Nancy Walker tried to do her own shows. She returned after her shows bombed and it was a sinking ship.
I felt the episodes where Martin leaves Ida were among the more honest. Ida had to confront the idea that she was an emasculating wife and she had no idea how to be anything but.
| by Anonymous | reply 44 | December 23, 2016 9:29 PM |
Ida was a cunt. Plain and simple.
| by Anonymous | reply 45 | December 23, 2016 9:32 PM |
Didn't Rhoda introduce Melanie Mayron??
| by Anonymous | reply 46 | December 24, 2016 6:13 AM |
Vivian Vance was supposed to be a regular but Lucille Ball still had Vance under contract and refused to let her be a regular on any show Lucy didn't approve of. Lucy though Harper was a whore for not wearing a bra.
| by Anonymous | reply 47 | December 24, 2016 7:32 AM |
r48
Not really, what happened was Vivian Vance WAS supposed to be a semi-regular on Rhoda, much like Anne Meara was for one season. Then Vance got ill and it fell through. Also Lucy criticized TV in general for lack of high standards one of which was women not wearing bras, of which Valerie and others were listed as examples.
But Lucy also disliked "All In The Family" and "Maude," and for some odd reason despite her bitching about low quality TV, absolutely loved "Three's Company."
| by Anonymous | reply 49 | December 24, 2016 11:39 AM |
R49 Three's Company was a great show for what it was, a bedroom farce. Of course Lucy would love it, John Ritter (who would win the Best Actor in a Comedy series Emmy for this show ) was hilarious doing the slapstick comedy, essentially a male Lucille Ball.
Ritter got his start guest starring on a lot of the MTM sitcoms.
| by Anonymous | reply 50 | December 24, 2016 12:05 PM |
The wedding episode was a masterpiece of comedic writing. Probably just as good, if not better, than the best MTM episodes.
| by Anonymous | reply 53 | December 31, 2016 8:12 PM |
Vance was on the show with Walker and the two of them would have been overload. I love Vance but you can hear the line reading echos of Ethel Mertz in her performance. Rhoda was desperate for anything at this point.
| by Anonymous | reply 54 | December 31, 2016 9:23 PM |
Joan Van Ark played Joe's ex-wife.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 56 | January 1, 2017 3:52 PM |
All those hideous head scarves. Awful.
| by Anonymous | reply 57 | January 1, 2017 4:19 PM |
Besides the wedding episode, I can't recall one memorable episode of Rhoda. Yeah it was well-written enough, but nothing truly memorable.
| by Anonymous | reply 58 | January 2, 2017 1:20 AM |
Rhoda tried to be the sitcom equivalent of a Woody Allen film, and it never really worked on that level. Molly Dodd pulled that feat off much better.
| by Anonymous | reply 60 | January 5, 2017 5:47 PM |
MY show would have been a whole lot better!
But I was too dead to have one what with being struck by lightning and all...
| by Anonymous | reply 62 | February 2, 2017 10:24 PM |
Vivian was terrible in Rhoda, she wasn't funny and for some reason the camera kept doing close ups of her.
| by Anonymous | reply 63 | February 2, 2017 10:25 PM |
Rhoda became Mary without the funny. Julie Kavner was the only reason to watch the show.
| by Anonymous | reply 64 | February 2, 2017 10:26 PM |
There were times I found Rhoda excessively mean to her mother, especially after Ida separated from Martin (who I find insanely attractive for a senior citizen). Yes they made Ida do things, say things, to justify Rhoda's animosity but it never rang true for some reason. For a time it made Rhoda into a bitter nasty shrew with a chip on her shoulder. It got to the point (in repeats, never saw it first run) that I hated when Rhoda would conspire with Brenda against Ida.
I stopped watching. Never saw the end.
And I hated Ron Silver and Roy Butenika - but that guy who played Johnny Venture was HOT.
For a while it was pretty easy to see MTM in repeats, in several languages... for example.... in French at the link.
I was so enthusiastic about finally seeing Rhoda and a lot of it was fun, like opening a gift, and Joe was so hamdsome, and the cool apartment, the original opening credits....
LES ENNUIS DE MARIE
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 65 | February 3, 2017 12:29 AM |
So happy. Never thought we would get a thread on this vital subject.
| by Anonymous | reply 66 | February 3, 2017 1:14 AM |
Decades TV is doing a Binge marathon of 'Rhoda' this weekend! I was looking on IMDB to see if Valerie won an Emmy for the show, and she did in 1975. The only other actresses nominated that year for Comedy were MTM and Jean Stapleton. Why wouldn't Bea Arthur have been nominated for 'Maude'?!? It actually appears that '75 is the *only* year she wasn't nominated for it. Any insight, Eldergays?
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 67 | August 9, 2020 4:02 AM |
I liked Brenda so much that I was convinced that she had her own show after Rhoda was canceled.
| by Anonymous | reply 68 | August 9, 2020 4:12 AM |
r67 it looks like for some reason lots of the categories only had three nominees that year. Some of the other years in the seventies are like that too. Harper's second Emmy was a tie with Sally Struthers with Cloris Leachman being the only other nominee.
They had odd rules back then and were always changing them. (still do come to think of it.)
| by Anonymous | reply 69 | August 9, 2020 4:14 AM |
R69, thanks. I was just shocked to see that Bea wasn't even nominated in '75. Very odd. And Cloris won two Emmys that year...one for 'MTM', and one for a guest appearance on the 'Cher' show.
| by Anonymous | reply 70 | August 9, 2020 4:16 AM |
Valerie Harper died of the coronavirus. Of course they covered it up. Because she had cancer it was easy to blame it on that, but she was really, along with Philip McKeon, one of the first people to die of coronavirus. And don't say it wasn't around then, 'cause that is what they want you to believe.
| by Anonymous | reply 71 | August 9, 2020 3:27 PM |
