Queer As Folk (USA)
William Jenkins 
I can't believe that people used to watch this dreck! It absolutely doesn't hold up, eighteen years later.
Showtime is re-airing episodes in June (I guess for Pride month), and I started watching it for the first time. Ugh.
Oh, the cliches! And the horrible dialogue!
I remember my older brother (who is also gay) used to regard QAF as "gay canon," and he did everything to imitate and emulate those guys.
Looking back, all I can say is that the Brian Kinney character is repulsive. I would HATE to have someone like that in my life who is arrogant, inconsiderate, egotistical, and has no regard for other peoples' feelings, but always seems to think that he can skate by on his good looks. In other words - PUNCH AND DELETE.
Michael was whiny, and Justin was annoying. The other two guys were gay cliche fillers, sort of like Ted Allen and Tom Filicia on "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy."
The whole thing is nearly unwatchable, some 18 years after its debut.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 274 | October 29, 2020 2:59 PM |
I don’t know that I’d call it unwatchable, but ....
That said, no one at the time were screaming for Emmy nominations. It is a soap (a prime time soap, but still a soap). I’ve seen far worse. It was fine.
| by Anonymous | reply 1 | June 5, 2018 2:21 AM |
There were gay characters. That was the appeal.
| by Anonymous | reply 2 | June 5, 2018 2:24 AM |
Wasn't Hal Sparks homophobic or something?
I remember at the time reading on Datalounge, that he had made some not so kind remarks about gay people, or he was being super defensive about being called "gay," or something like that.
| by Anonymous | reply 3 | June 5, 2018 2:31 AM |
With each new episode, I'm hating the Brian character more and more.
Like I seriously want someone to knock him out.
| by Anonymous | reply 4 | June 5, 2018 2:31 AM |
Yes, it was terrible then and it is terrible now. The fact that some people on here thought it was better than Looking is beyond comprehension. For as slow or "misrepresented" as Looking was, it was far better than QAF. That goes for the UK version, which everyone said was superior to the US one.
| by Anonymous | reply 5 | June 5, 2018 2:37 AM |
[quote]That said, no one at the time were screaming for Emmy nominations. It is a soap (a prime time soap, but still a soap)
Yep. It isn't like anyone ever thought it was highbrow fare.
But it was revolutionary at the time. Gay male main characters, having sex, lots of sex. Nothing like that had ever aired on American television.
| by Anonymous | reply 6 | June 5, 2018 2:37 AM |
I watched the show faithfully because it was the only gay-focused show on television, but I agree with you, Brian was indeed repulsive. I never could understand the (rather obsessive) adoration he and his portrayer got here on DL.
| by Anonymous | reply 7 | June 5, 2018 2:37 AM |
It was wildly uneven. It had some good storylines and a few good moments, but overall it wasn't a very good show. And Brian was a douchebag character. Why anyone would be around him was beyond me. He wasn't even hot.
| by Anonymous | reply 8 | June 5, 2018 2:40 AM |
[quote]I remember at the time reading on Datalounge, that he had made some not so kind remarks about gay people, or he was being super defensive about being called "gay," or something like that.
People got mad because Hal Sparks talked about how didn't enjoy the gay sex scenes, said kissing a guy was like kissing a dog.
| by Anonymous | reply 9 | June 5, 2018 2:42 AM |
Preferred Six Feet Under...
| by Anonymous | reply 10 | June 5, 2018 2:44 AM |
This was an absolutely horrid show. Even on its first airing I thought it was one of the worst things ever on television.
| by Anonymous | reply 11 | June 5, 2018 2:45 AM |
I watched all 60 episodes on my Toshiba laptop 5 years ago. I'll never watch QAF ever again. As a gay drama it was exactly as you'd expect. It was a relaxing 3 days. Apart from when my then partner tried to bust the laptop over my head for not giving him head.
| by Anonymous | reply 12 | June 5, 2018 2:50 AM |
I bought season 5 on dvd. It is in the category of so bad it is good. There were some good actors. I really thought Hal Sparks was a homo because he played it so well. The Justin and Brian characters were beyond annoying. It was just pure sensation. No substance. Although considering how many of the characters were toxic pieces of shit, like most of the posters on DL, I guess that reflects reality. Plus, as if there would be a club like Babylon in such a shit hole town.
| by Anonymous | reply 13 | June 5, 2018 2:52 AM |
Same reason black people Watch Tyler Perry movies. When you are underrepresented in the media, sometimes any representation is appreciated and watched
| by Anonymous | reply 14 | June 5, 2018 2:52 AM |
The two lesbians worked ny nerves. Especially that sanctimonious Melanie.
What a cunt.
| by Anonymous | reply 15 | June 5, 2018 2:53 AM |
Sharon Gless was the best thing about the show.
She really gave it some heart, which was lacking in QAF.
| by Anonymous | reply 16 | June 5, 2018 2:55 AM |
[quote] People got mad because Hal Sparks talked about how didn't enjoy the gay sex scenes, said kissing a guy was like kissing a dog
Okay, that's BAD.
Can you just imagine the backlash that he'd be getting today, what with Facebook, Twitter, etc.?
He would probably have been gone after Season 1.
| by Anonymous | reply 17 | June 5, 2018 2:56 AM |
What's interesting is that this show couldn't be made today, because it centers around club culture, which is pretty much non-existent in 2018
| by Anonymous | reply 18 | June 5, 2018 2:56 AM |
I give Sparks a pass for those comments. He’s ultra progressive and a total ally to the gay community. I’d rather focus my anger on those trying to do us real harm than the unenlightened comments an actor made 20 years ago.
| by Anonymous | reply 20 | June 5, 2018 2:58 AM |
I watched the UK one on VHS tapes I think I found on eBay. I liked it a lot. From the first episode, the US one felt like an inferior shot-by-shot remake.
| by Anonymous | reply 21 | June 5, 2018 2:59 AM |
I've only watched seasons 2 and 3. I quite enjoyed the storyline where Debbie slowly came to terms with Michael dating HIV+ Ben. I agree though that most of it was pretty cringeworthy. Hal Sparks in particular was woefully miscast.
| by Anonymous | reply 22 | June 5, 2018 2:59 AM |
Was Hal Sparks supposed to be a twink when it first aired?
That's funny, because both he and Gale would have been 31 when it first aired, which is hardly a twink.
When he met David the chiropractor, he actually referred to him as "old." How ridiculous.
| by Anonymous | reply 23 | June 5, 2018 3:01 AM |
I liked Emmett a lot, he added a certain charm to the show. And Justin's mom. Hated the Ted character, so ugly and no personality or charisma at all, how he even got cast is beyond me. Some of the writing was simply absurd but like many have already said, there wasn't much else at the time.
| by Anonymous | reply 24 | June 5, 2018 3:11 AM |
Hal Sparks and Gale Harold's characters were childhood friends. Michael and Brian were both 29 when the show started.
| by Anonymous | reply 25 | June 5, 2018 3:14 AM |
The lesbians were insufferable.
| by Anonymous | reply 26 | June 5, 2018 3:14 AM |
It was Melrose Place for gay people, nothing more. People got way too over-invested in it. I just enjoyed it for the gay soap opera that it was.
| by Anonymous | reply 27 | June 5, 2018 3:15 AM |
You're overthinking it. It was a fluffy soap with gay sex.
| by Anonymous | reply 28 | June 5, 2018 3:17 AM |
Queer As Folk would be a shitstorm of outrage today, with the entire main cast being CIS WHITE MALES.
| by Anonymous | reply 29 | June 5, 2018 3:19 AM |
Yeah, I also recently started re-watching QAF and it does not really stand the test of time. Sadly, in some ways. As R18 said, it centered so much on club culture which has gone downhill in 15 short years.
Could never really warm up to whiny Michael and Justin was almost always insufferably smug and annoying. The Brian caricature was so completely unrealistic that it amuses me how angry the fraus were at the show's finale.
| by Anonymous | reply 30 | June 5, 2018 3:19 AM |
I always fast-forwarded the scenes with the lesbians.
| by Anonymous | reply 32 | June 5, 2018 3:25 AM |
Brian and Justin were not as good looking as they tried to portray. Ted was not as ugly.
| by Anonymous | reply 33 | June 5, 2018 3:27 AM |
[quote] Hal Sparks and Gale Harold's characters were childhood friends. Michael and Brian were both 29 when the show started
They were both born in 1969, which would have made them 31 in the year 2000.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 34 | June 5, 2018 3:30 AM |
The UK version was soooooo much better and only 7 or so episodes in two seasons. This being said, and I'm repeating what others have said before: It was LITERALLY the only "gay" show on TV, at the time. Sure the acting, plotting, character development, sets...all were sub par, but so are most soaps. But there was nudity, and men making out...I liked when they aired "Gay Duck" after the show. Do any of those actors have careers now? Other then Sharon Gless? ( Randy Harrison does theater, one of 'the boyfriends" is on a commercial, and one of the girls was on Dante's Cove 100 years ago...)
| by Anonymous | reply 35 | June 5, 2018 3:32 AM |
Gosh, I thought it was a fun diversion.
| by Anonymous | reply 36 | June 5, 2018 3:34 AM |
This TV show did not change the world or decipher the secrets of alchemy. FAIL.
| by Anonymous | reply 37 | June 5, 2018 3:37 AM |
I always hated this show and never got the appeal. Shallow, poorly written, melodramatic. Awful.
| by Anonymous | reply 38 | June 5, 2018 3:39 AM |
[quote]I always hated this show and never got the appeal
...
[quote]There were gay characters. That was the appeal.
| by Anonymous | reply 39 | June 5, 2018 3:41 AM |
I forced myself (literally) to watch the first season, but I finally gave up. I wanted so desperately to see gay characters and plotlines, but I eventually had to face the fact that it just wasn't good TV. I couldn't get invested in the characters, and ended up not caring what happened to any of them. I went back to watching good movies with good acting and great dialogue, and never looked back.
| by Anonymous | reply 40 | June 5, 2018 3:50 AM |
I always thought Hal Sparks really was gay.
| by Anonymous | reply 41 | June 5, 2018 3:51 AM |
I think I made it up to season 3? I think it was 3. I just sorta checked out. Not sure why. I'd been enjoying it well enough. It's a decent show. Emmett was my favorite. I thought he was a sweetheart.
| by Anonymous | reply 42 | June 5, 2018 3:51 AM |
lol, yeah the lesbian scenes were the worst.
As a young gay, I spilled a lot of seed to that violinist that Justin hooked up with.
| by Anonymous | reply 43 | June 5, 2018 3:53 AM |
Of all the cities in the US, what made them set the show in Pittsburgh?
| by Anonymous | reply 44 | June 5, 2018 3:53 AM |
I don't care what you say, I wanted Brian Kenney inside me quite deeply and thought he was HAF.
| by Anonymous | reply 45 | June 5, 2018 3:55 AM |
I hated Michael. He used to make the stupidest, goofiest faces. I wanted to smack his face until the skin was destroyed like shredded meat.
| by Anonymous | reply 46 | June 5, 2018 4:01 AM |
They wanted an "industrial working-class" type city like Manchester where the original version was set, and somebody picked Pittsburgh to be similar r44.
They didn't seem to think through that while Manchester has a large vibrant gay scene, Pittsburgh didn't have much of one so it made zero sense. The best similarity to Manchester would have been Chicago imo.
| by Anonymous | reply 47 | June 5, 2018 4:05 AM |
The show has held up well, remaining one of the best portrayals ever of gay life.
| by Anonymous | reply 48 | June 5, 2018 4:05 AM |
What's with Hal Sparks and the double earrings?
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 50 | June 5, 2018 4:28 AM |
Gale Harold still looks good for his age...
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 51 | June 5, 2018 4:31 AM |
Were people enjoying Rosie as the plucky Loretta Pye?
| by Anonymous | reply 52 | June 5, 2018 5:14 AM |
The execution of it could have been much better, but the concept was a good one. A group of gay men, living their lives as the people they were with no excuses and no apologies. A rather bold premise for its time.
| by Anonymous | reply 53 | June 5, 2018 5:19 AM |
[quote] A group of gay men, living their lives as the people they were with no excuses and no apologies. A rather bold premise for its time.
Meh.
Broken Hearts Club did it first.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 54 | June 5, 2018 5:28 AM |
So are Gale Harold and Hal Sparks both still single?
Pushing 50, and no mention of significant others on either of their wiki pages.
| by Anonymous | reply 55 | June 5, 2018 5:28 AM |
I can't believe that Randy Harrison is 40.
Time really does fly by.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 56 | June 5, 2018 5:42 AM |
[quote]Do any of those actors have careers now? Other then Sharon Gless? ( Randy Harrison does theater, one of 'the boyfriends" is on a commercial, and one of the girls was on Dante's Cove 100 years ago...)
Robert Gant, who played Michael's AIDS-y boyfriend, went on to star in this sendoff of 1950s classroom films, [italic]Billy's Dad is a Fudge-Packer.[/italic] Other than that, he seems to have dropped off the planet.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 57 | June 5, 2018 6:06 AM |
Would it be safe to say that QAF pretty much destroyed all of the main actors' television/film careers?
| by Anonymous | reply 58 | June 5, 2018 6:09 AM |
it's all we had; I actually liked it.
I thought Harold, Page, and Gless were all Emmy-worthy.
| by Anonymous | reply 59 | June 5, 2018 6:10 AM |
I loved it and watched it faithfully even though it was crap. My favorite storyline was Emmett and Drew.
| by Anonymous | reply 60 | June 5, 2018 6:17 AM |
I thought I was the only one who couldn't stand the show or the characters. They all seemed obnoxious in their own way and I could not understand why (or how) they befriended eachother. I remember the writing tried so hard to be mature but ironically just gave the characters more excuses not to grow. Infact, in the short time that I watched I don't think any of the characters had development. Can someone who watched to the end verify if any of them changed?
| by Anonymous | reply 61 | June 5, 2018 6:23 AM |
it was a FANTASY; my name is Michael and I read a LOT of comic books and had way too many collectibles, and when Michael hooks up with his HOT chiropractor, Dr. David (Chris Potter is so my type) I thought this is the fantasy, for me, it not others.
But like I said this was all we had; there are dozens of dramas featuring straight couples; and if Brothers & Sisters wasn't for you, then you could check out some other family drama.
| by Anonymous | reply 62 | June 5, 2018 6:24 AM |
Everything about this tv show is cheap. Very cheap.
| by Anonymous | reply 63 | June 5, 2018 6:30 AM |
It may not "hold up" but even with all the cartoonish exaggerations, it's a good time capsule of big-city gay life at the turn of the century.
I hope tomorrow's gays don't have to create their own families because their birth ones rejected them.
The baby would be graduating from high school this year, and living in such a different world.
| by Anonymous | reply 64 | June 5, 2018 6:36 AM |
Eh, I liked it in its time. Not sure how I'd think of it now. And to the poster above, the fun little cartoon was "Queer Duck," not "Gay Duck."
| by Anonymous | reply 65 | June 5, 2018 6:38 AM |
It was a nighttime melodrama...with gay people, nudity and topical issues. It was a guilty pleasure. No award winning but not meaningless. Relax and enjoy your pride and a bit of nostalgia...the 90s and early 2000s were quite hopeful
| by Anonymous | reply 66 | June 5, 2018 6:48 AM |
I think some feel it's very cool to trash the show, but it is what it is; I actually liked it an awful lot.
Many felt out and proud Emmett would be the last one to try conversion therapy, but I thought the writing and the acting was very good.
| by Anonymous | reply 67 | June 5, 2018 6:48 AM |
I agree. Completely unwatchable. I have never been able to finish an episode.
| by Anonymous | reply 68 | June 5, 2018 6:49 AM |
Hal Sparks was on a kids show called Lab Rats on Nickelodeon I think lol
| by Anonymous | reply 69 | June 5, 2018 6:51 AM |
Hal Sparks appears to be a pain in the ass as a person as well as in that awful character, but he didn't say kissing a man was like kissing a dog. That was David the chiropractor (never even knew the name of the actor, but it was him, anyway).
Sparks was jeered a lot by the fangirls because every single time he was interviewed (for years) he talked about how he was straight, even when the questioning had nothing to do with it; but he didn't get any more offensive than that, if I recall correctly.
| by Anonymous | reply 70 | June 5, 2018 7:13 AM |
I believe Gant appears periodically on Y&R.
The guy who played Emmett Peter Paige creates and produces TV shows like The Fosters.
It was filmed in Toronto and gave a lot of work to Canadian actors.
| by Anonymous | reply 71 | June 5, 2018 7:20 AM |
Gant is one of the gay dads in 13 Reasons Why and also Supergirl's bio dad in CW's Supergirl.
| by Anonymous | reply 72 | June 5, 2018 7:36 AM |
I like Showtime's Queer As Folk. It's like The Boys in the Band with slightly more redeeming characters. Yeah the stories were ridiculous but it was just mindless, fluff entertainment, but it kind of felt "from gays for gays", something you rarely got back then where the gay stuff was usually to appeal to the straigtht mainstream.
| by Anonymous | reply 73 | June 5, 2018 7:41 AM |
R56 And, no better looking.
| by Anonymous | reply 74 | June 5, 2018 7:48 AM |
I loved QAF. The British one was much better but US QAF grew on me and it was a fun show to watch. Both Brian and Stuart were great in their own way. Michael and Justin were at times insufferable while their British counterparts were better characters.
| by Anonymous | reply 75 | June 5, 2018 11:55 AM |
[quote] The guy who played Emmett Peter Paige creates and produces TV shows like The Fosters
I didn't know that. I really liked The Fosters, especially because of the gay content.
If QAF ever gets a re-boot, they should let Peter Paige do it.
| by Anonymous | reply 76 | June 5, 2018 4:55 PM |
Today on Showtime is the Emmett "gay conversion therapy" episode, as well as the Michael breaks up with David episode.
Before I watch it, why did Michael break up with David, and why did Emmett seek conversion therapy?
Also, why did Justin run away to NYC?
I was just reading the previews, but didn't watch the show yet.
| by Anonymous | reply 77 | June 5, 2018 9:50 PM |
I once went out with one of the stars -- he told me he was a bottom only and not into monogamy. Bye girl.
| by Anonymous | reply 78 | June 5, 2018 10:11 PM |
Oh c'mon R78... spill the beans.
You can't just drop a nugget like that, and then walk away!
How about you just say yea or nay? I say it's Randy Harrison.
| by Anonymous | reply 79 | June 5, 2018 10:21 PM |
I was in my mid-20’s when this show launched and it was a huge deal- especially if you lived in a big city. The promotion around the show was super exciting. I remember a giant billboard in the heart of downtown Chicago- not even Boystown. This was in River North. It felt very exciting. The actual show itself? Big sigh. Pretty awful. The characters were pretty awful across the board. Sharon Gless chewed the scenery like no one’s business and her character’s over the top, ribald expressions of acceptance toward her son’s homosexuality set my teeth on edge. It wasn’t even hot or sexy. I didn’t believe this group of friends would actually enjoy each other. The 2 things they did right was the music in season 1 (great slice of early 00’s gay life) and the scene at Justin’s prom when Brian surprises him and they dance to Save the Last Dance by The Drifters. That was a sweet moment that got me.
| by Anonymous | reply 80 | June 5, 2018 10:22 PM |
I also think it's Randy, r79.
| by Anonymous | reply 81 | June 5, 2018 10:51 PM |
I thought it was Randy Harrison too but I was friends with 1 of his ex-boyfriends and he told me Randy was versatile. Which actually surprised me because I thought he was a total bottom.
| by Anonymous | reply 82 | June 5, 2018 11:09 PM |
Well, there aren't many choices, only Peter Paige or Robert Gant.
| by Anonymous | reply 83 | June 5, 2018 11:14 PM |
The show wasn't just for gay people. A lot of straight people watched it too, to get their first look at authentic portrayals of gay people's personal lives and their ups and downs.
| by Anonymous | reply 84 | June 5, 2018 11:14 PM |
So, r78 is just going to leave us hanging on who it was? Eh.
Maybe it was Gale Harold. He's bi. Although I can't see him being a bottom.
| by Anonymous | reply 85 | June 6, 2018 3:41 AM |
R44 and R47: My understanding is Manchester is the San Francisco of the UK, in terms of the THE GEHY at least, some even call it Gaychester. So why they just didn't do San Fran I'll never know, that's the most parallel city. But yeah, Chicago would've worked or even Toronto, where they filmed it. But Pittsburgh? In the early 2000s? Sure, Jan.
| by Anonymous | reply 86 | June 6, 2018 3:55 AM |
I watched/enjoyed it all and just thought it reminded me of my white, cis, privileged life. Sort of like Sex in the City. A bunch of friends going thru life together. I thought the story lines were ridiculous but my friends all had ridiculous story lines (to a certain extent). Am I lucky that my life was similar to that TV show? Or just shallow and oblivious that others had a different experience? I was pleased that there was finally a show that at least reflected something similar to my life. Was there really a need for a deeper dive if it I found it entertaining?
| by Anonymous | reply 87 | June 6, 2018 4:02 AM |
[quote]I was pleased that there was finally a show that at least reflected something similar to my life.
Exactly.
| by Anonymous | reply 88 | June 6, 2018 4:04 AM |
Nobody could understand why it was set in Pittsburgh, you used to hear that all the time when the show was originally on. I remember Chicago and Boston being the two cities most people thought would've been a better fit.
Of course, the show was so obviously shot in Toronto they should've just set it in Toronto.
| by Anonymous | reply 89 | June 6, 2018 4:32 AM |
A Canadian setting would have turned off a lot of American viewers.
| by Anonymous | reply 90 | June 6, 2018 4:34 AM |
I used to watch this when it was on television. I loved it at the time because no other gay programs existed like this. I can appreciate how people make fun of it now but it was important then.
I remember having a crush on Hal Sparks when he was on Talk Soup so I was so happy he did a gay show. I was really disappointed when I found out he wasn’t actually gay because I thought he was before QAF was made.
Now he looks like a trans Man. He seems like he’s going through midlife crisis.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 92 | June 6, 2018 5:16 AM |
I believe they specifically chose Pittsburgh to point out that gays are everywhere and having their little gayborhoods.
| by Anonymous | reply 93 | June 6, 2018 5:46 AM |
I always assumed they chose Pittsburgh because it’s an industrial working class city like Manchester.
| by Anonymous | reply 94 | June 6, 2018 5:55 AM |
I was a fan of the show back in the day, but the spontaneous anal sex with no lube was unrealistic. At least to me.
| by Anonymous | reply 95 | June 6, 2018 6:05 AM |
R80 - that's so funny - I remember the same billboard on the brown line between Chicago and Merch Mart also. In fact, that's one of my strongest memories of the early part of that show - that they actually bought a billboard in that area for a gay show.
It just really struck me - somebody else remembered the exact same thing and felt the same way. Thanks DL!
| by Anonymous | reply 96 | June 6, 2018 6:15 AM |
[quote]I believe Gant appears periodically on Y&R.
The word around here was that Gant was the partner of NBC's chairman Robert Greenblatt but I've never seen proof of it.
[quote]Before I watch it, why did Michael break up with David, and why did Emmett seek conversion therapy?
Emmet had an HIV scare and that brought him to conversion. David was going to move to Portland and Michael didn't want to go. I'm basing this all on Wikipedia and not memory, though.
| by Anonymous | reply 97 | June 6, 2018 6:25 AM |
Except for Gless, none of the actors from QAF seem to work anymore.
| by Anonymous | reply 98 | June 6, 2018 6:36 AM |
It's not like any of the male actors had big careers before this show. I hope they saved their money.
| by Anonymous | reply 99 | June 6, 2018 6:59 AM |
I watched the first episode of the British one recently because I've heard for so long how much better it was and I've been meaning to check it out. I've only seen the one, but It sucked so hard I will never watch the second!
| by Anonymous | reply 100 | June 6, 2018 7:28 AM |
[quote] David was going to move to Portland and Michael didn't want to go. I'm basing this all on Wikipedia and not memory, though.
Michael did leave with David (end of season one), but came back (first episode of season two) because he was miserable there (no friends, no job, etc.) and his relationship with David went sour and they broke up.
| by Anonymous | reply 101 | June 6, 2018 11:51 AM |
Robert Gant is in the latest episode of The Fosters.
| by Anonymous | reply 102 | June 6, 2018 11:53 AM |
[quote]A lot of straight people watched it too, to get their first look at [bold]authentic portrayals of gay people's personal lives [/bold]and their ups and downs.
Wow. Really? A soap opera presents ”authentic portrayals?”
Some of you really obsessed over this show to an unhealthy degree.
| by Anonymous | reply 103 | June 6, 2018 12:53 PM |
Without straight fraus I doubt Queer as Folk would have lasted as long as it did. Early in the second season I was at an event at the Pailey Center for Media, L.A festival which featured a panel discussion of the actors and creators of the show (Robert Gant was on stage as well) and afterwards shown an episode which aired a few days later. The venue was packed with frau types. It was this event that made me realize that fraus, women in general, are bigger allies than I thought.
| by Anonymous | reply 104 | June 6, 2018 1:11 PM |
I hated this show. It was like the worst of every gay stereotype, including bad writing (probably hiring writers based on attractiveness rather than skill), the characters were one-dimensional. The original UK version was so much more real and just HUMAN.
| by Anonymous | reply 105 | June 6, 2018 1:24 PM |
I liked it enough to watch every episode, but I’ve never watched it again. Brian Kinney was the perfect physical embodiment of my type. That was its appeal. I hated how he treated Sunshine. The rest of the characters were a snore except for Deb and Vic.
| by Anonymous | reply 106 | June 6, 2018 2:01 PM |
I was underwhelmed by it when it first came on because the whole overall series seemed so overheated. I think I gave up some time during the 2nd season.
Thinking back on it, this is one of the few things about it I remember . . .
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 107 | June 6, 2018 2:11 PM |
R104, I was there too and remember that Gale Harold acted like an ass and would barely talk.
| by Anonymous | reply 108 | June 6, 2018 2:47 PM |
R106 I was always hoping Deb would one day snap & smother Uncle Vic with a pillow.
| by Anonymous | reply 109 | June 6, 2018 2:47 PM |
How many of you know that teenybopper twink Charley Hunnam was on the British QAF?
| by Anonymous | reply 110 | June 6, 2018 2:51 PM |
[quote] I was there too and remember that Gale Harold acted like an ass and would barely talk.
Still remember his very Brian Kinney line delivery of his "Like I won the lottery!" answer (to the question how it felt when he found out he was cast on the show) that made some of the guys on stage squirm. Loved Peter Page for hamming it up on stage and cracking jokes to lighten up the mood that seemed tense whenever the focus was on Gale.
| by Anonymous | reply 111 | June 6, 2018 2:56 PM |
I think Gale Harold is just uncomfortable in the limelight, which is kind of weird if you want to be an actor. I enjoyed it but you had to think of it as a fantasy, a soap opera as others have said. I thought the acting got better over time, especially Gale Harold and Randy Harrison, who had some cringe-worthy moments at the beginning. I didn't like the ending either.
| by Anonymous | reply 112 | June 6, 2018 3:14 PM |
Randy Harrison is currently playing Prior in the Berkeley Rep's production of Angels in America.
| by Anonymous | reply 113 | June 6, 2018 3:23 PM |
R94: Right, but Manchester also has a HUGE gay population and is known for it. That's what they fucked up on in the transition. Chicago would have fit the bill nicely or even Philadelphia. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter, it was nearly 2 decades ago. I have the first 2 seasons on DVD, and haven't watched them in a decade at least. I've never seen beyond the end of season 2 lol.
| by Anonymous | reply 114 | June 6, 2018 4:04 PM |
I know it won't make a difference to those that didn't like the show, but when I first started watching on Netflix something seemed off.
Turns out they had replaced the music. It was an important part of QAF and it's not the same without it.
| by Anonymous | reply 115 | June 6, 2018 4:11 PM |
I wonder if the look of Pittsburgh matched more the actual film location (Toronto, Canada)? I imagine some gays would have had a hissy fit if the show had dared to misrepresent the actual gay venues and gay nightlife of, say, Chicago?
| by Anonymous | reply 116 | June 6, 2018 4:14 PM |
R115: So it's another situation like Daria, where Viacom is too fucking cheap to preserve a show as it should be. Typical.
| by Anonymous | reply 117 | June 6, 2018 4:20 PM |
Yeah, the first time Showtime reran the entire series a few years ago, they stripped out all of the original music due to rights issues and replaced it with generic sound-alike crap. In particular this ruined the prom scene with Brian and Justin.
| by Anonymous | reply 118 | June 6, 2018 4:29 PM |
I’m a frau and was mesmerized when I first saw it because I had never seen so much gay sex. Then I continued watching because I got caught up in the soap aspect. It was one of the most erratic shows I’ve ever seen, combining some very good acting with awful acting. A lot of the actors were inexperienced and needed consistent direction and writing, which they did not get. And good directors would have reined in Gless’s hamminess. I agree that Brian was repulsive and the lesbians were cringeworthy. Someone burned a CD for me of the Season 1 music and it was one of my favorite music CDs for years.
| by Anonymous | reply 119 | June 6, 2018 4:49 PM |
[quote] A Canadian setting would have turned off a lot of American viewers.
I actually think the opposite is true.
More closeted fundie freaks and curiosity seekers would have tuned in, because they could have said, "hey at least it's not in Amurika. Those bleedin' heart Canadian liberulz are weirdos anyway!"
[quote] I remember having a crush on Hal Sparks... Now he looks like a trans Man. He seems like he’s going through midlife crisis.
R92, that picture is fascinating.
I read on his wiki page that he's a FREEMASON, and in the picture you linked, he's wearing a free mason necklace!!!
How weird. I wonder what's up with that? I never imagined Hal as being a cultist, but you never know.
Actors are quite a strange lot.
| by Anonymous | reply 120 | June 6, 2018 11:04 PM |
Yes, it's a shame they changed the music. They've been showing it at night on Showtime and the replacement of the original songs bothers me because I know the songs that originally played during the scenes. You don't realize how much the music in a show impacts the scenes until it's changed to something else. In this case the original songs were so much better.
| by Anonymous | reply 121 | June 6, 2018 11:22 PM |
I think that on this current run (or re-run, I should say) on Showtime, they are airing the original music, which is great.
Showtime is airing four episodes per day, and they're up to season two, where Michael and Brian reconcile, after their big fight at Michael's birthday party where Brian outed Michael to his co-worker.
| by Anonymous | reply 122 | June 6, 2018 11:26 PM |
So many fucking boring Canadian actors in smaller roles and very little eye candy, to boot. It should have been set in Chicago but shot in NYC like The Good Wife was.
| by Anonymous | reply 123 | June 7, 2018 1:39 AM |
Why didn't Michael and Brian ever get together?
They had so much chemistry with each other.
| by Anonymous | reply 124 | June 7, 2018 2:31 AM |
Because they hated eachother.
| by Anonymous | reply 125 | June 7, 2018 4:53 AM |
The actors or the characters, R125?
Do tell.
| by Anonymous | reply 126 | June 7, 2018 4:56 AM |
Robert Gant was born Robert Gonzalez!
He's part Cuban and Spanish. That's cool.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 127 | June 7, 2018 4:57 AM |
Do you all realize that the baby that played Gus would already be 18 years old??
| by Anonymous | reply 128 | June 7, 2018 5:00 AM |
The scene where Robert Gant is fucking Hal Sparks- hot as hell.
| by Anonymous | reply 129 | June 7, 2018 7:10 AM |
r128 the baby Gus would have died in Ted's meth lab explosion (his next business venture).
| by Anonymous | reply 130 | June 7, 2018 10:11 AM |
I think the episode where I mainly gave up was the "Faerie Camp" one. So many bad tropes stuffed into one. Filler episode. Bad writing.
Little known fact: The series producers and writers went on to create the Heathers Reboot!
| by Anonymous | reply 131 | June 7, 2018 10:20 AM |
Love when the football player/ underwear model story line was added.
| by Anonymous | reply 132 | June 7, 2018 12:56 PM |
I never found Robert Gant attractive. His body yes, his face, no.
| by Anonymous | reply 133 | June 7, 2018 2:47 PM |
I loved the show though it could be over the top. Robert Gant was the hottest cast member, IMO. My only critique was the lack of racial diversity. The Justin/Ethan storyline was my 2nd favorite after the Michael meeting and falling for Ben episodes. I watch the reruns every Pride month on Showtime.
| by Anonymous | reply 134 | June 7, 2018 3:16 PM |
r126 Hal and Gale apparently hated each other. Don't really know the reasons behind their feud but Hal was badmouthing Gale and even Randy in interviews.
| by Anonymous | reply 136 | June 7, 2018 6:29 PM |
I've always respected Gale Harold that he didn't care if people thought he was gay or not, didn't even want to talk about his sexuality when he started the show, and he never said anything the least bit homophobic in interviews that I saw.
| by Anonymous | reply 137 | June 7, 2018 6:54 PM |
R128 Your math skills are incredible, Miss Cuntessa.
| by Anonymous | reply 138 | June 7, 2018 7:25 PM |
I think the internet killed club culture. I hope it returns but by the time I'll be too old to enjoy it.
| by Anonymous | reply 139 | June 7, 2018 7:39 PM |
I always love hearing about behind the scenes drama, R136.
Where'd that info. come from? I can't imagine it was in the mainstream. Any links or stories?
I find it amazing, because honestly Gale and Hal seem SO friendly with each other on the show. They must be the best actors in the world, if they really hate each other.
| by Anonymous | reply 140 | June 7, 2018 8:34 PM |
I think Hal resented that he wasn't the big star and the show's fans were crazy about Brian and Justin. I remember, supposedly, Peter Page called Hal a backstabber for re-negotiating his salary with the producers on his own instead of sticking to a promise of teaming up with the other cast members (like the cast of Friends did) and presenting an united front. My guess, at least. But instead of more money the episodes got cut meaning less work for the same money (and it's not like the cast members were in big demand otherwise).
| by Anonymous | reply 141 | June 7, 2018 8:34 PM |
I like his stand up. Much of it is funny.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 142 | June 7, 2018 8:57 PM |
Like r141 what I remember is that Hal resented the popularity of Brian and Justin. Whether half-jokingly or not Hal said he wanted to play the role because Greg Kinnear was nominated for playing a gay character. He wanted acclaim but Brian and Justin stole the attention. IIRC Hal wanted the show to continue but Randy nor Gale wanted to stay on so it was cancelled which irked Hal because he felt the show was more than those two characters.
| by Anonymous | reply 143 | June 7, 2018 9:35 PM |
r140, I vaguely remember that Hal called Gale unprofessional because he was very vocal about his dissatisfaction with his storyline or something. There's also this interview:
"Wow. So now that the 'Sex in the City' movie has paved the way for a $100 million opening, when can we expect the 'Queer as Folk' movie? No way will there ever be a 'Queer as Folk' movie.
Really? Why not? Because a couple of the cast members I know for sure wouldn’t do it and I’m certain that the executive producers Ron and Dan wouldn’t want to work with them either.
Bad blood? Uh, yeah.
Gimme the dirt! What happened? My feeling always was, an an actor - and especially as one of the straight actors on the show, that, to a degree, it was my job to do my lines the way they were written and mind my fucking business because our executive producers and many of our writers were gay and were creating these scripts and lines to tell their stories. What, I’m gonna come in and say, 'well I don’t think my character would do that'?. It’s like, seriously? Fuck off. Let's just say there was a little bit of, um, pushback with some of the other actors on the show.
The gay ones or the straight ones? Um, one of each, actually. There ended up being a lot of negativity in kind of just trying to get loving storylines done and it was a tall order.
That sucks. Yeah. I’m still in contact with many of the people from the show like Bobby Gant, who played my character’s boyfriend, and Harris, who played my son. Both of those guys put a lot of themselves into that show and worked really friggin’ hard and I have a really low tolerance, personally, for anybody who would interrupt that process of people trying to do good work just because of ego and bullshit.
So those two people, and I’m sure the people out there in Queer as Folkland have some idea who I’m talking about, I wouldn’t work with them again in any capacity."
I can't believe that I actually searched for this link...
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 144 | June 7, 2018 10:20 PM |
Wow, that was excellent, R144!
Thanks for the research.
I'm guessing that it has to be Gale Harold and Randy Harrison that Hal Sparks is talking about.
I'd have to say that I'm "team Hal" on this one.
| by Anonymous | reply 145 | June 7, 2018 10:50 PM |
He is barely hiding that he is talking about Gale Harold and Randy Harrison being diva-ish about what the writers gave them.
| by Anonymous | reply 146 | June 7, 2018 10:53 PM |
Gale Harold sounds like a real prick.
No wonder he couldn't find work after QAF.
| by Anonymous | reply 147 | June 7, 2018 10:55 PM |
Randy did this radio interview once and at around the 25:24 mark he mentioned about the time he had his first threesome. The other two in the threesome were Gale & Peter. I was friends with Peter and I told him about the interview. He was over one night and we listened to it. He told me the threesome was him, Gale and Randy. Well, he said Gale & Randy had been sleeping together since Season 1 but it was the first time the three of them had gotten together.
| by Anonymous | reply 148 | June 7, 2018 11:24 PM |
r148 here. Forgot the link to the interview. Here it is.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 149 | June 7, 2018 11:25 PM |
Well, I used to watch it for the sex scenes. One of the hottest being Emmett and Drew's.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 150 | June 8, 2018 12:32 AM |
[quote] Randy did this radio interview once and at around the 25:24 mark he mentioned about the time he had his first threesome. The other two in the threesome were Gale & Peter
Wait, what?
I thought that Gale had always maintained that he was straight.
| by Anonymous | reply 151 | June 8, 2018 1:20 AM |
R103, never thought it was authentic or real; for me, it was fun.
I didn't take it too seriously; it was just amazing that we finally had a show that featured gay characters having sex, living their lives.
If I thought about it too much I wouldn't get why most of these people were friends with each other, but it was what it was.
I still enjoy season one enormously thanks to Dr. David; the rest was okay. The characters were mostly likable and I thought Gale was pretty good, especially.
| by Anonymous | reply 153 | June 8, 2018 3:24 AM |
I thought that the scene at the baths was really gross. I was surprised at how graphic it was on the episode where Brian caught Dr. David.
Not erotic at all. But that's just me, and I'm a bit of a prude.
| by Anonymous | reply 154 | June 8, 2018 3:31 AM |
How can the scenes in Babylon's backroom and the baths be gross? They were glorified soft porn shoots with hot guys as extras. The reality, even back then, was quite grim with barely any hot guys present and just ugly trolls trolling for dick. The show glorified Gay nightlife and gay friendship where the others put up with someone like Brian for this long.
| by Anonymous | reply 155 | June 8, 2018 8:12 AM |
R148 is a Tumblr Frau Troll
They used to infest the old Gale Harold threads, pushing the narrative that "Gale is bi and he and Randy were sleeping together because the sex scenes were too real" -- if you want to get psychological, it was likely a way for them to extend the show or make it real.
IIRC, they even had a whole timeline for when all this happened, similar to the Larrys (the guys who want the 1D guys to be gay.)
At least it's a different direction than the usual frau-infested DL actor threads (e.g. Lee Pace) where we're saying "no he's gay" and the fraus are arguing that he's straight.
| by Anonymous | reply 156 | June 8, 2018 10:53 AM |
Also, as for Harold, he was on Desperate Housewives for a few years after Queer As Folk and had a role in Deadwood on HBO too.
After that he seemed to have completely dropped off the radar. IMDB shows a bunch of small indie film roles so he is still working.
| by Anonymous | reply 157 | June 8, 2018 10:56 AM |
He had a small role in SyFy's Defiance as well.
| by Anonymous | reply 158 | June 8, 2018 11:18 AM |
R148 so the couple gale/randy was real
| by Anonymous | reply 159 | June 8, 2018 1:51 PM |
Oh well. the fraus have taken over.
If you ever bothered to delve into the insanity of the old Gale Harold threads, it was all people like R148 and R159 speculating that "Gandy" (you can't make this shit up) was real and using Google translate to put out their theories as to why and others who would believe any crap they read on DL. Along with the usual stalking of any Harold friends or relatives.
While OP seems to be a gay man discovering the show for the first time, he's re-opened a doorway to Crazyland that had seemingly been shut for while.
I guess that's what the "Ignore" button is for.
| by Anonymous | reply 160 | June 8, 2018 2:42 PM |
I think that Dean Armstrong (Blake) was actually the hottest guy on the show.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 161 | June 8, 2018 5:12 PM |
Dean Armstrong still looks great at 45.
Is he gay? His wiki page doesn't mention anything.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 162 | June 8, 2018 5:17 PM |
Oh god, let's not get into the "L" word. Better writing than QAF but I hated all the characters, especially the "WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE TAKE A DUMP ON MY CHEST!" lead.
| by Anonymous | reply 164 | June 8, 2018 5:54 PM |
Poor R160 is triggered. Poor dear! Have some tea, turn on Y & R, and I'll bring you some muffins around 2, after your nap, ok, dear?
| by Anonymous | reply 165 | June 8, 2018 6:00 PM |
Special pride issue of EW. New interviews and pictures of the entire cast.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 166 | June 8, 2018 6:41 PM |
[quote] Gless, 75, says of wanting to play Michael’s outlandish mom, Debbie. “I felt so confident that I picked up the phone and called [then Showtime programming president] Jerry Offsay. I said, ‘I’d like to do the mother.’ He said, ‘You know, I like the idea, Sharon. I think you’ll bring a little class to the project.’ I said,[bold] ‘Jerry, class is not what I had in mind.'”[/bold]
Sharon Gless is the best!
| by Anonymous | reply 167 | June 8, 2018 6:55 PM |
Did Sharon win any awards for that role?
I was never sure what to make of Deb, but I suspect Kat Turner may have been just a bit better in that role.
| by Anonymous | reply 168 | June 8, 2018 6:58 PM |
r168 less cartoonish, certainly.
| by Anonymous | reply 169 | June 8, 2018 6:59 PM |
Has the 'Creative Professional Troll shown up yet? The one who identifies with Brian Kinney and only wants to talk to other tiresome queens such as that?
| by Anonymous | reply 170 | June 8, 2018 11:00 PM |
Um, I'm a GUY, r156. And what I said about the threesome with Gale, Randy and Peter is 100% true. Believe it or not it's up to you but I don't care 1 way or the other. I know the truth.
| by Anonymous | reply 171 | June 8, 2018 11:31 PM |
The British original is 100 times better.
| by Anonymous | reply 172 | June 8, 2018 11:33 PM |
Duck OP. I couldn't even watch the British version.
| by Anonymous | reply 173 | June 9, 2018 12:37 AM |
The British original's second season was worse than whatever the Showtime version came up with. The first season is great but I watched the final episodes of the second season only once. Utter shite (as the Brits would say).
| by Anonymous | reply 174 | June 9, 2018 11:05 AM |
I watched the Prom episode (and the following two episodes) on Friday, and thought it was the most ridiculous thing ever.
Not so much that Justin got beaten up, but the follow up. I just didn't think it was realistic. "He doesn't want to be touched." Bullshit. You'd think he would WANT to be touched by loved ones, after that horrific beating.
And the real kicker, was when his mother said to Brian, "I want you to take my son." Then Brian replied, "I don't understand what you're saying. You want me to fuck him?" And she says, "If that's what it takes."
What???? This woman just learned her son was gay, and now she's telling his much older lover to fuck him???
Arrrrghhhh! Such stupid writing! This is where the show jumped the shark for me.
Note to people who write for gay shows: BE REALISTIC!!! Don't insert your little fantasies, or whatever. It just makes the writing seem lame.
| by Anonymous | reply 175 | June 9, 2018 10:21 PM |
Or to put it another way R175, if you were 30 and one of your 30 year old friends told you that he was going to show up at his high school aged boyfriend's senior prom, how would you react?
| by Anonymous | reply 176 | June 10, 2018 12:17 AM |
R168 no . Not even nominated for a globe. If you can’t get nominated by the HFPA who give out the globes, there’s a problem. (And they are usually more lenient when it comes to lower brow entertainment). Gless is a good actress but she needed to dial it back a notch or two. The use of fuck or shit every other word got tedious.
| by Anonymous | reply 177 | June 10, 2018 12:36 AM |
Why did Brian miss Mel and Lindsey's wedding?
I missed the first half of the episode, but I noticed that he didn't attend the wedding, and then the ending scene showed him at some sort of white party.
What happened?
| by Anonymous | reply 178 | June 14, 2018 1:50 AM |
He went to the White Party in Miami I believe it was. Justin was supposed to go with him but then he decided to attend Melanie's & Lindsay's wedding instead.
| by Anonymous | reply 179 | June 14, 2018 4:38 AM |
I don't disagree with a lot of the criticisms but I loved the show; what can I say? Yes, it was far from perfect and certain scenarios made no sense, but I didn't care.
All kinds of TV shows have unrealistic developments, premises.
| by Anonymous | reply 180 | June 14, 2018 6:06 AM |
R175, the writing in season two was horrible. the only season I really loved was season one.
| by Anonymous | reply 181 | June 14, 2018 6:07 AM |
[quote] He went to the White Party in Miami
But why did he go to the White Party, instead of the wedding?
You'd think he'd want to be at the wedding.
| by Anonymous | reply 182 | June 14, 2018 6:11 AM |
no; Brian had no desire to attend a ceremony about commitment (especially muncher commitment) when he wanted to live the single life.
The director did a nice bit at the end when I think Lindsay (?) threw the bouquet and cut to Brian a t the white party catching a bouquet.
I would have given Emmy or GG noms to Gless, Harold and maybe Paige.
| by Anonymous | reply 183 | June 14, 2018 6:28 AM |
R175 I remember that scene and it was so cringeworthy. The straight women on the show were all weird hags who would talk about how hot it was to imagine their sons and coworkers having sex.
I watched the show again about a year ago and I found myself siding with Justin's parents Season 1. He was 16 and going to gay clubs to meet 30+ year old men to do drugs and have public sex. The show made them out to be raging homophobes for telling him he can't do that. What the hell? What parent wouldn't be upset?!
| by Anonymous | reply 184 | June 14, 2018 8:44 AM |
I just saw the reunion videos and Hal Sparks looks like a lesbian tennis instructor. The earrings are horrible, he got chunky and jowly, the shoe polish black hair dye is worse than if he'd just go grey- and the vaseline lens only makes it all even more terrible.
| by Anonymous | reply 185 | June 14, 2018 9:10 AM |
I was in college when this was released. I had seen and liked the UK original and I had read an essay called “The Uses of the Erotic: Erotic as Power” by Audre Lorde in a film and media studies class. I realized that Queer as Folk was an important development in onscreen depictions of gay men, having followed Will and Grace-type depictions in which gay men were presented as innocuous and largely sexual only by virtue of innuendo, with the implication being that decent straight people should accept gay people, but that decent gay people should conceal their sexuality and fill a court jester type of role. The only sexualized portrayals of gay men until this show were in (usually even poorer quality) gay movies made specifically for a gay subculture and never seen by straight people. So I wrote my English honors thesis on the uses of the erotic to empower LGBT people through fully humanizing them. When the US version of this show came out I thought it was greatly inferior to the original in every way and not a very entertaining show, but still an important show societally, and I still feel that way. It’s one of those glass ceiling buster-type cultural events whose quality is secondary to its premise in certain regards. To be great, any kind of entertainment production has to be great entertainment as well as provocative and envelope pushing, but there is still value in a subpar execution of an idea whose time has come. “Star Trek” and “The Twilight Zone” likewise had amateurish production values and performances and awkward dialogue, but they’ve both remained influential and appreciated for their cultural significance. This show is less philosophically exploratative but its one big idea—showing gay human beings as fully realized human beings—did help people “get it.” It was quickly followed by The L Word and Oz and other series that showed same-sex sex as a component of gay people’s lives, rather than pushing that unsightly taboo out of the frame as always had been done before.
| by Anonymous | reply 186 | June 14, 2018 10:47 AM |
[quote]if you were 30 and one of your 30 year old friends told you that he was going to show up at his high school aged boyfriend's senior prom, how would you react?
Seriously. I am 31 if one of my friends was doing something like this they would no longer be my friend.
| by Anonymous | reply 187 | June 15, 2018 1:34 PM |
I thought it was romantic.
| by Anonymous | reply 188 | June 15, 2018 6:11 PM |
I loathed the surly twink hustler who Michael and Ben adopted in the last season. It seemed like every scene he was in ended with him angrily storming out, even when he didn't have any dialogue.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 189 | June 15, 2018 10:29 PM |
the surly hustler was gay, then he was straight; he wanted to date a girl in h.s. and the girl's parents were so progressive in being okay with Hunter having two gay dads.
Then they found out Hunter was HIV + and they had a problem with him. Duh! They didn't want their teenage daughter having sex with Hunter!
| by Anonymous | reply 190 | June 16, 2018 5:41 AM |
the one story I didn't get was Justin taking Daphne's virginity and then making fun of her inexperience to Linz and Mel.
(She's going to need more practice, he said)
Hey, Justin! Maybe she woulda been better at it if she were with a straight guy who was into her!
| by Anonymous | reply 191 | June 16, 2018 5:44 AM |
This is going to piss off a lot of old grandpas on this board but if you think Queer as Folk was bad, try watching The Boys in the Band. Talk about pathetic, shallow, self involved unlikable stereotypes!
| by Anonymous | reply 192 | June 16, 2018 6:17 AM |
Even back when it first aired, they had a disclaimer that this did not represent the gay community. It was a drama based on a small group of friends who's life revolved around a club.
So its what you would expect, a good looking (debatable) guy guy who is totally shallow and self involved. A blond twink in love with a top no matter how bad he is treated. Mikey, the regular guy with a very pro gay mom and two side kicks. One with just slightly gay mannerisms and one that hated himself for not being as good looking as he wanted to be. Those people all existed and still do exist in any gay bar thats still around.
The hardest part to buy was being in Pittsburgh and having a huge gay club the likes you would only see in L.A. They should have just sucked it up and set it up in a big city. But I guess that would have cost a lot more since they filmed it all in Canada.
| by Anonymous | reply 193 | June 16, 2018 6:28 AM |
Hall Sparks actually rebranded himself as a comedian years ago. He still looks good for his age.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 194 | June 16, 2018 6:38 AM |
He looks the worst of them all
| by Anonymous | reply 195 | June 16, 2018 7:24 AM |
I agree, r195. Did Hal have plastic surgery? It sure looks like it from the new QAF reunion pics in EW Mag. I barely recognized him his face looked so different. Or is it just that he's aged so much since the QAF days?
| by Anonymous | reply 196 | June 16, 2018 2:16 PM |
Hal looks the most Muppet-y of the original cast now. Randy still looks 10 years younger than his actual age. GH is sporting a graybeard, which makes him look 10 years older.
| by Anonymous | reply 197 | June 16, 2018 2:31 PM |
I thought it was so unrealisitic that Brian-a good looking masculine guy would drool over that effeminite Justin, who wasn't even good looking. He looked like a monkey. His British counterpart was better looking and not queeny.
| by Anonymous | reply 198 | June 16, 2018 2:41 PM |
QAF was mediocre at best. People keep saying it was the only gay show back then. How many gay shows are on the air now? NONE. The last gay show was LOOKING.
| by Anonymous | reply 199 | June 16, 2018 2:43 PM |
I couldn’t stand the Hal Sparks character! Having a hot doctor wanting to marry him, but he doesn’t want him. What kind of a glib is that?
| by Anonymous | reply 200 | June 16, 2018 3:08 PM |
Sure, the Brian character was the most handsome man in the show, but I would never fall for a guy like that. I would have married the doctor in a heartbeat!
| by Anonymous | reply 201 | June 16, 2018 3:17 PM |
The Ted Schmidt character was not bad looking . If they wanted to have someone who would actually be constantly rejected they should have hired an actor who weighed 300 pounds.
| by Anonymous | reply 202 | June 16, 2018 3:22 PM |
Gale's gray beard looks horrible. He looks like an old mountain man who hasn't shaved in years. It truly is amazing how young Randy still looks. Hard to believe he's 40 . Even harder to believe he was only 23 when QAF 1st aired. Time flies.
| by Anonymous | reply 203 | June 16, 2018 3:52 PM |
It's true r203, if he shaved that ugly beard he'd look 10 years younger. Hal is plastic. Peter Paige looks great.
| by Anonymous | reply 204 | June 16, 2018 3:59 PM |
Why did they get rid of the doctor character?
| by Anonymous | reply 205 | June 16, 2018 4:22 PM |
Wouldn't wash his taint properly before sex scenes.
| by Anonymous | reply 206 | June 16, 2018 4:24 PM |
Lol are you serious, R206?
I know that there was a lot of close naked body contact on this show, so for some reason I'm believing you.
If you're telling the truth, then EW!
| by Anonymous | reply 207 | June 19, 2018 4:34 AM |
QAF panel discussion.
Sharon Gless looks great!
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 208 | June 19, 2018 4:34 AM |
OMFG Sparks looks terrible. Like a fat botoxed lesbian.
| by Anonymous | reply 209 | June 19, 2018 4:54 AM |
I went to college in a very small, conservative town- our Gay-Straight Alliance didn't really get around to doing anything productive so a lot of our meetings involved sitting around and watching gay-themed shows on DVD- either Will and Grace or QAF. Even then we all admitted it was kind of a ridiculous show but there just weren't that many gay shows around at the time, especially ones with attractive men in gay sex scenes.
| by Anonymous | reply 210 | June 19, 2018 4:58 AM |
The seating at R208 is very telling.
Harrison and Harold on one end, Paige and (Ted?) in the middle, Sparks and Gless and Gant on the other end.
I guess that the feuding rumors were true.
| by Anonymous | reply 211 | June 19, 2018 4:59 AM |
It might have been a little cheap, but comforting. It marked the end of a chapter. I think if there was a similar show now... well: never mind.
| by Anonymous | reply 212 | June 19, 2018 5:16 AM |
As a native Pittsburgher (aka a Yinzer), the first time I noticed was how clean the streets were in the exterior scenes. Obviously not Pittsburgh, our streets are pretty dirty. Definitely Toronto with the clean streets.
If Sharon Gless' character was real, I pictured her living in a place like Swissvale, a blue-collar suburb that borders Pittsburgh on the east.
Pittsburgh is a family-oriented place; gay men, lesbians and even transexuals are family-oriented. Gays and lesbians in Pittsburgh buy and renovate that four-, five- or six-bedroom Victorian, adopt a couple of bi-racial and/or special needs children, get a golden retriever or an Irish setter, join the municipal zoning board, etc
| by Anonymous | reply 213 | June 19, 2018 5:25 AM |
R213 All the lezbags buy black and retarded gaybies! Fucking sign me up for dat shit.
| by Anonymous | reply 214 | June 19, 2018 5:47 AM |
I was in my first year of college when the show came on. My friends and I watched it and liked it at the time. I've been watching it this month on Showtime and I don't think it's held up well. Now when I watch it I find it very corny and some things very unrealistic. It's funny how your perspective changes over the years.
| by Anonymous | reply 215 | June 19, 2018 11:38 PM |
Should we get a reboot of some sort?
| by Anonymous | reply 216 | June 20, 2018 5:37 AM |
[quote] Should we get a reboot of some sort?
What would it be about? Gay people sitting at their computers, trolling for cock?
There is no gay life anymore. It's boring as fuck out there.
Young gays have nothing distinct going on, because they're all trying so hard to be assimilated gaybros.
There is no gay culture. The people leading the charge for gay equality, have turned us into heteros. Gay marriage, 2.5 kids, everybody has the same "masculine" look, and wants a house in the suburbs.
It's a totally different world from 18 years ago.
| by Anonymous | reply 217 | June 20, 2018 5:45 AM |
A reboot would be trans, not gay.
| by Anonymous | reply 218 | June 20, 2018 5:47 AM |
Any hopes for a reboot were killed when the gays shit all over LOOKING, a show that, unlike QAF, will go on to age very well.
| by Anonymous | reply 219 | June 20, 2018 6:13 AM |
[quote] LOOKING, a show that, unlike QAF, will go on to age very well.
Yeah, it will still be exactly as bland and forgettable in 20 years.
| by Anonymous | reply 220 | June 20, 2018 8:56 AM |
R200, I agree. David was so hot; he was offering Michael a different life and he didn't go for it.
I also never got what David saw in Michael; he wasn't exactly a twink -- did he have a huge penis?
WHAT did David see in Michael?
| by Anonymous | reply 222 | June 20, 2018 6:08 PM |
[quote]What would it be about? Gay people sitting at their computers, trolling for cock?
There was already a show about about the modern life of a group of gay men. It was called "Looking".
And yes, the failure of "Looking" means it is going to be hard for any series trying to bitch "a story about the life of gay men" to get greenlight.
| by Anonymous | reply 223 | June 20, 2018 6:12 PM |
I couldn't stand that guy from LOOKING. The one plays the computer tech guy. Now there's an example of a guy who's considered good looking who has NO sex appeal, like Matt Bomer.
| by Anonymous | reply 225 | June 21, 2018 8:00 PM |
Ironically, it paved the way for NOAH'S ARC.
| by Anonymous | reply 226 | June 21, 2018 10:53 PM |
OP It's not meant to hold up, dear. Watch current, fresh junk. Not junk in the trash heap.
I said fresh junk. Eh.
| by Anonymous | reply 227 | June 21, 2018 11:06 PM |
Dean Armstrong (Blake) should have played the Justin character.
He was much twinkier and much better looking than Randy Harrison.
Dean was probably the best looking guy on the show, next to Robert Gant.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 228 | June 22, 2018 4:47 AM |
There was a CRAZY qaf troll on here for a few years.....
| by Anonymous | reply 229 | June 22, 2018 5:35 AM |
R228, I agree about the actor playing Blake making a better Justin; he's about four and a half years older than Randy but he was pretty boyish.
Randy didn't have a really hot body and when Justin went to interview to work as a stripper the club owner said to him he didn't have a great body; and Justin says I have a great ass and I'm blond 'you'll be amazed at how far that gets me'
| by Anonymous | reply 230 | June 22, 2018 8:01 AM |
I agree with 228 and 230. Randy Harrison looked like a blond monkey. The actor who played the Justin type character on the British QAF was better looking and not fem.
| by Anonymous | reply 231 | June 22, 2018 1:55 PM |
r230 r231 are you blind?? randy harrison is amazing
| by Anonymous | reply 232 | June 24, 2018 10:01 AM |
Randy was fine in the part. Twinks don't need buff bodies.
| by Anonymous | reply 233 | June 24, 2018 4:31 PM |
Charlie Hunnan was UK Justin and I could see why Stuart/Brian fell for him...Randy’s sassy Justin couldn’t get my dick hard.
| by Anonymous | reply 234 | June 24, 2018 9:49 PM |
[quote] Randy’s sassy Justin couldn’t get my dick hard.
He was more than just "sassy." He was fucking annoying and irritating.
The more the show went on, the more I grew to hate him. He and Brian made the how nearly unwatchable towards the end, because of their relentless cuntitude.
All they ever did was WHINE, and give off a bad attitude. Who would ever want to be around them???
| by Anonymous | reply 235 | June 24, 2018 11:10 PM |
The last season of QAF, US version, was particularly cringeworthy.
Brian became a huge queen. I know, he changed for love, but that change made my head spin like Linda Blair on "The Exorcist". The only show I really liked of the whole series was where Justin got bashed. Then his mother "gave" him to Brian to fix, and I was like "really, WTF"?
| by Anonymous | reply 236 | June 24, 2018 11:26 PM |
The last season felt really rushed. I enjoyed it prior to that.
| by Anonymous | reply 237 | June 24, 2018 11:35 PM |
R231 That's because the actor that played him was straight. Justin was more authentic as a gay teen since that's basically what he was.
| by Anonymous | reply 238 | June 24, 2018 11:36 PM |
He was a teen in DL years.
| by Anonymous | reply 239 | June 24, 2018 11:38 PM |
The Justin character was so smug, so self-congratulatory and so self-righteous that it was very difficult to sympathize with him.
When he took that guy's virginity in Season 2 at Daphne's party and then brushed him off later on when the guy came looking for him (calling him a "fairy" to boot), I despised him from that point forward. Thus I didn't give a crap about the love triangle storyline with Ethan that followed.
| by Anonymous | reply 240 | June 24, 2018 11:40 PM |
My question all along, which was never answered to my satisfaction, is why did Brian fall for Justin so hard? Justin was a vain, pretentious, obnoxious, annoying twat.
| by Anonymous | reply 241 | June 25, 2018 12:01 AM |
[quote] why did Brian fall for Justin so hard? Justin was a vain, pretentious, obnoxious, annoying twat.
Exactly, R242.
They're the only ones who could actually stand each other.
| by Anonymous | reply 243 | June 25, 2018 12:05 AM |
[quote]My question all along, which was never answered to my satisfaction, is why did Brian fall for Justin so hard? Justin was a vain, pretentious, obnoxious, annoying twat.
What kind of question is that to demand answering? Why do people fall hard for anyone? Haven't you ever fallen hard for someone your friends didn't like or vice versa?
Besides, Brian liked that Justin stood his ground with him. He loved the fawning and hero worship from him, but he wasn't one to be bulldozed over unlike Michael.
| by Anonymous | reply 244 | June 25, 2018 12:07 AM |
[quote]Justin was a vain, pretentious, obnoxious, annoying twat.
Says someone labeling herself Dorothy Parker's Ghost
As if
| by Anonymous | reply 245 | June 25, 2018 12:18 AM |
The guy who played Hunter (Harris Allan) looks so much better, with some age on him.
He's 33 now, which is why he looks the best of the cast. I'm not a fan of the freckles, though.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 246 | June 29, 2018 4:37 AM |
the relationship I never got was David and Michael; what did Dr. Dreamboat see in Michael?
Tho as I am a "Michael" type I loved it.
| by Anonymous | reply 248 | June 30, 2018 10:44 PM |
I liked it as TV junk food and I stuck with it until the bitter end, but it never felt authentic to me because of all of the Canadians in the supporting/guest roles. And the elimination of the original music in the reruns only served to expose how weak the writing was.
| by Anonymous | reply 249 | October 22, 2020 9:20 AM |
[quote]Justin looked like a monkey.
I thought the writers got in a good dig at Randy's looks when they had the leader of the gay vigilante group call him "Meg Ryan."
| by Anonymous | reply 250 | October 22, 2020 9:28 AM |
Regarding Prom. There is a double standard there. A guy bringing a female college student or even a cougar as his date would get high fives from his peers. But since Justin brought an older guy it was icky.
[quote] the relationship I never got was David and Michael; what did Dr. Dreamboat see in Michael?
Michael was kind of a stand-in for David's son who lived with his mom far away. He spoiled Michael by buying him stuff and even takes him to Paris. He was Michael's sugar daddy and in a passive aggressive way showed that he didn't care for Michael's friends (especially Brian) or any other contribution Michael was willing to provide other than his perky ass (and you've got to admit Hal Spark's ass was really nice).
| by Anonymous | reply 251 | October 22, 2020 10:35 AM |
A previous poster mentioned the Heather reboot and I remember how put off I was by the trailer and didn't bother with the show at first, but then later on I decided to watch it on Netflix and it was quite nice actually. But then I am a sucker for Ryan Murphy type of campy entertainment. And Queer As Folk, of course.
| by Anonymous | reply 252 | October 22, 2020 10:42 AM |
Rewatched parts of the series last year. I agree with R4/R7/R8, Kinney was a nasty piece of work, who acted above the friends and long-term lovers he was lucky to have.
Ok, he had more money than God as well as a nice Otterish figure and pretty andro looks (guess that’s why the lesbian friend wanted his sperm donation), but this was offset by his trashy manners and his apathetic personality and his extensive emotional damage (that which presumably caused his personality disorders). It took him years and several painful seasons to realise that he was nothing more than the biggest cunt in a small backwater pond, where the audience clocked that a few episodes, and there was almost nothing moving or compelling about this story.
And I didn’t like the Justin character at all either, but there were times I felt really sorry for him in spite of his whiney vapid entitlement, because Brian was just that needlessly cruel and borderline-abusive to him. Same goes for Michael, albeit to a lesser extent as Michael was older and should have known better having been Brian’s disciple for decades.
The characterisation of Brian barely came off back then, but I daresay that in our times it would be even more difficult - maybe even impossible - to portray a chilly moribund and cold-blooded CEO like him as a sympathetic protagonist. People have had their fill of 2D-sharks on television.
Stuart Jones, the U.K. counterpart to Brian Kinney, made much more sense as a dynamic predatorial type with a heart. Aiden Gillen portrayed Stuart as a shadowy swaggering man, but one with an underlying warmth and complicated affable defensiveness that created a more rounded person with whom we the viewer could sympathise. The writing was also far better for the original character and the series, R75 has it right. I feel I understand and somewhat like Stuart by the end of U.K. QAF, where Brian is simply loathsome start to finish.
Then there’s the fact that the U.S. version did not enjoy the incredible chemistry between Gillen & Charlie Hunnam, but we won’t talk about that...
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 253 | October 22, 2020 12:05 PM |
My first boyfriend was as loathsome as Brian. And also as beautiful. Unconsciously, I figured he had the right to be as arrogant as he was. Seeing Brian confirmed it. While Dave wasn't the first guy to eat my ass out, he was the first guy to make me cum hands free, so I got Sunshine's adDICKtion to Brian. I was equally adDICKted, for a few years, actually.
That was all I needed to know to appreciate the character of Brian Kinney, as presented.
| by Anonymous | reply 254 | October 22, 2020 12:12 PM |
R202 a joke in one episode saw Ted at a party (possibly a wedding? I forget) swarmed by middle-aged women who did not know or realise he was gay, flirting aggressively with him. The bitter irony of his character situation was that he was considered basically nice-looking, decent, stable and not a bad catch to everyone but the beautiful jacked young gay men he craved. Quite tragically accurate, as stereotypes go.
I liked his relationship with the doomed druggie twink (Blane, or Blake, or something?), and I thought it was a clever parallel with LA TRAVIATA. It showed that to a certain extent Ted rode a carousel of messy drama and misery in life because of his inflexibility and emotional addictions.
Looking back, I feel the strongest and most dramatically-interesting character of the core group was Ted. Maybe this is the post-Breaking Bad perspective talking, but I think there is something fascinating about the unassuming nebbish nobody with rock-bottom self-esteem and a penchant for the melodramatic going through Hell and high-water, yet somehow staying afloat. The character went through comedic and dramatic arcs with equal aplomb, and the actor Scott Lowell gave the best performance in the show, I thought.
The presence of Ted made Brian almost bearable, for me. Their friendship dynamic was the only one I could watch that didn’t make me absolutely enraged by Kinney, and I wonder if that’s where the show dropped a major ball (I would have watched their high-rise escapades together more readily than their separate soapy blah love triangle issues). Their scenes together click so well, perhaps because Harold liked and respected Lowell enough to get over himself in their scenes, or something.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 255 | October 22, 2020 12:20 PM |
One plus for QAF was that the guys had a range of obvious gayness--compare that to today where gay characters are either over the top femmes (Modern Family) or Can You Believe This Masculine Jock Is A Homo guys with zero gay characteristics.
But yes, it was mostly a soap opera that had gratuitous sex scenes in it that, especially after the first season, rarely had anything to do with the story line. It was as if they'd spliced in a softcore gay porn shoot rather than cutting to a commercial.
What's funny is that my main memory of QAF is when I discovered Datalounge several years back and was shocked to see dozens of threads on Gale Harold, all of which were written by obsessed fangurls who desperately wanted Harold to be bisexual and in a secret relationship with Randy Harrison.
What's funny is those same people are now doing the same thing with Armie Hammer and Timothee Chalamet. Right down to the creepy stalking of random friends and family members.
In regards to the cast, IIRC, Sparks had some sort of career as a comedian prior to the show and the others were all unknowns and he thought he was going to be the star.
The beefs seemed to stem from the fact that Sparks was a stand-up who was thrilled to have gotten a well-paid acting gig while the others were all actors who wanted a show they could use to launch their careers-- QAF UK certainly helped Aiden G and Charlie H--and the two guys who ran the US show were hacks who couldn't move beyond soap opera.
What's most curious about QAF though is that it still seems to have a somewhat rabid fan base among fraus, particularly European and Asian fraus. My take was that it is the same basic groups of women who write all those gay fan fiction stories and somehow get off on gay sex and gay characters.
| by Anonymous | reply 256 | October 22, 2020 12:44 PM |
I watched the Brit version when it aired. I started watching the american version and was immediately repelled
| by Anonymous | reply 257 | October 22, 2020 1:11 PM |
Everything about this show sucked ,except Hal Sparks who is someone I kinda admire. The UK version is one of my all time fave series, so clever and sexy and real. And the music 🎶 👌
| by Anonymous | reply 258 | October 22, 2020 2:09 PM |
Hal's alleged homophobia despite playing gay reminds me of Kerr Smith's alleged homophobia despite playing gay teen Jack on Dawson's Creek.
| by Anonymous | reply 259 | October 22, 2020 2:33 PM |
I'd give you a WW, r259, but "alleged" is not a word you needed in either case.
| by Anonymous | reply 260 | October 22, 2020 2:35 PM |
Harris Allan who played that bisexual teen hustler Hunter looks good today. Aged into a good looking guy.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 261 | October 22, 2020 2:39 PM |
Funny, Sparks always stuck out like a sore thumb to me--he was so clearly a standup doing shtick whereas the others were all actors trying to make something of a very soapy script.
It was like they were on two different shows.
It should be noted that there is no way in hell QAF would get made today--can you imagine the freakout about a 30 year old seducing a 17 year old high school student-- and in the UK version he was supposed to have been even younger. Regardless of what the actual age of consent was, there would be major social media freakout about the age difference.
| by Anonymous | reply 262 | October 22, 2020 2:45 PM |
I guess Peter Paige ended up being the most successful one out of them all. He is a showrunner now with The Fosters and The Good Trouble getting acclaim and ratings. Love both series.
| by Anonymous | reply 263 | October 22, 2020 2:46 PM |
The original appeal of QAF (Showtime and the original from UK) was the unapologetic and explicit hedonism of the characters. They were, for the most part (unless a story plot demanded it), not ashamed of getting laid. They were party queens spending their time at gay bars and gay clubs, took the occasional drug, drank and had fun. And, of course, the gay soap drama. Sure, for some that was "problematic", because gays weren't supposed to look like they are driven by lust (Oh great, now my straight peers think I am horny all the time and think with my gay dick! Now they will think less of me, for sure! Damn you, QAF *shaking fist*).
| by Anonymous | reply 265 | October 22, 2020 2:54 PM |
R228 didn’t Dean Armstrong also play a victim in Repo Man? If it wasn’t him, then it was a guy who looked just like him.
He’s very Canadian to listen to and look at. Judging by his Twitter, he’s an ‘acting coach’ and a hetero family man now. Apparently he still makes time to hang out with Scott Lowell a few times a year’and flirt up a storm with him for the fanservice, though, which is nice.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 266 | October 22, 2020 2:59 PM |
It was the one gay show at the time and people demanded it be everything to everyone which was impossible.
I laughed when the straight guys asked Michael if he watched sports and Hal takes a beat and says “constantly.”
It was fantasy. I saw gay men cracking jokes, talking in shorthand, living their lives.
Who of us at 17 had the balls to go to the gay part of town and tried to get laid like Justin did?
I loved it when Melanie would rip into Brian. I loved the friendship between Debbie and Jennifer. I loved it when Brian got Guillaume out of the picture and as he’s leaving, Brian, holding Gus, says “ Say au revoir, Gus!”
I loved season 1; I preferred David to Ben.
It was a gay Melrose Place.
| by Anonymous | reply 267 | October 22, 2020 3:00 PM |
Which other shows centered on gay characters airing in the period 2000-2005 are you comparing this to?
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 268 | October 22, 2020 3:07 PM |
It's not odd that girls enjoyed this show how to see all the hot male ass. I bet majority of the viewers were women in fact since you know they are a larger population than us. It's no different than straight dudes who made up most of The L Word's viewing audience.
The made a sequel to The L Word which I haven't watched but apparently it's been fixing all the problematic aspects of the original show.
| by Anonymous | reply 269 | October 22, 2020 3:09 PM |
It was successful in "world building", a great escapist TV for small town gays to keep "it gets better" mantra alive. It was clearly not intended to win Palm D'Or so I looked past some considerable quality issues.
| by Anonymous | reply 270 | October 22, 2020 3:17 PM |
It was a groundbreaking, great gay series. I have watched it at least 5 times. It never gets old.
| by Anonymous | reply 271 | October 22, 2020 3:34 PM |
Younger lesbians will criticize The L Word too. But like QAF was important for its time and groundbreaking.
| by Anonymous | reply 272 | October 22, 2020 8:34 PM |
We all agree that Michael Novotny had some sort of mild high-functioning autism, right? And I’m saying that as someone who liked the character and thought he got too much unwarranted hateful criticism.
Wonder if that possibility ever entered into Sparks’ decisions about the character?
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 273 | October 29, 2020 2:48 PM |
I think that was Spark's idea of being a gay nerd who's so into comics that, starting with season 2, owns a comic book store and creates a comic book series with his frenemy Justin. In the episode he meets Ben Michael points out the value comics had for kids like him struggling to fit in.
| by Anonymous | reply 274 | October 29, 2020 2:59 PM |
