How America Got Mean
James Williams 
Is it social media?
Is it a lack of institutions and volunteerism?
Is it diversity?
Or are people just so stressed from economic factors that they have no time to be nice anymore?
David Brooks (yes, him) has an interesting piece out on the topic. He boils it down to a general shift toward self-centered thinking in America. Nowadays, you're the only person who truly matters in your life. You are always right, and the others are always wrong, and if someone doesn't like you, then it's probably their hang-up.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 124 | August 24, 2023 10:12 AM |
It's the anonymity of the internet.
| by Anonymous | reply 1 | August 14, 2023 7:31 PM |
Let me guess: Mr. Brooks blames [italic]both[/italic] sides. As usual.
| by Anonymous | reply 2 | August 14, 2023 7:35 PM |
Y’all commie libtard heathen groomers just need to find Jesus! Then you’ll be just as kind and loving as I am, you satanic pedophiles.
| by Anonymous | reply 3 | August 14, 2023 7:47 PM |
I hope this doesn't come across as mean, but David Brooks is a shitty 'thinker'. I can't read that drivel.
| by Anonymous | reply 4 | August 14, 2023 7:52 PM |
How did America get mean? Well, I think the infection started with Rush Limbaugh, and spread throughout conservative radio and then to encompass the entire GOP. It didn't start with Trump, but he sure threw gasoline on the smoldering fire.
| by Anonymous | reply 5 | August 14, 2023 7:54 PM |
The majority of people are stressed out trying to earn a buck to survive, uncertain whether they can access basic necessities like affordable healthcare and housing, and the richest of the rich just keep amassing wealth like dragons while amplifying through media divisive issues that keep the population focused on fighting with each other rather than facing up to our collective economic reality.
Politicians are old as shit and many of them have profited handsomely from their elected positions, with corporate interests so overrepresented in the political landscape that common interests don’t have a chance, even when there’s strength in numbers.
The Trump era showed many of us that our own relatives and friends carry disturbing beliefs (people got way more comfortable showing racism, homophobia, and misogyny) and that many of our fellow citizens will fall in line behind a political party that promotes not a single widely beneficial policy (and, in fact, offers no real policy besides obstructionist tactics). No matter how bad or corrupt someone is shown to be (Clarence Thomas) there is no appetite to get rid of them amongst those who consider him “our guy”.
It would be better if we all collectively took the time to treat each other with greater kindness, but patience is frayed and people don’t have a lot of extra energy to give. Not saying it’s right, but that’s what’s reflected around us.
| by Anonymous | reply 6 | August 14, 2023 7:54 PM |
It is amazing how everybody got so mean and divided. Whites against blacks, men against women, citizens against immigrants, feminism against patriarchy, etc. I think this did start during the Obama administration. Too much social change was happening too quickly and certain people felt left out.
| by Anonymous | reply 8 | August 14, 2023 8:06 PM |
I think it’s also being on the internet like r1 said. If you spend hours reading and posting nasty things that’s sure to flow over into your attitude towards things and other people.
| by Anonymous | reply 9 | August 14, 2023 8:07 PM |
I didn't notice until Russia put Trump in the WH. I found the Obama years were good and the drastic change after was a shock.
| by Anonymous | reply 10 | August 14, 2023 8:12 PM |
David Brooks is a right-winger
Only an idiot would think America was "nicer" in the era of Jim Crow laws and sodomy laws
| by Anonymous | reply 11 | August 14, 2023 8:16 PM |
Why do people insist on posting paywalled articles?
| by Anonymous | reply 12 | August 14, 2023 8:28 PM |
Talk radio took off with the demise of the FCC Fairness Doctrine. But then again everyone has always been mean.
| by Anonymous | reply 13 | August 14, 2023 8:35 PM |
Starting on appropriated land, the genocide of Native American peoples wasn't an ideal start in the beginning of the history of the creation of the USA. Founded and colonized by radically overzealous religious nuts left fertile ground for hatred.
| by Anonymous | reply 14 | August 14, 2023 8:35 PM |
You lost me at “David Brooks…”
| by Anonymous | reply 15 | August 14, 2023 8:40 PM |
It didn't "get" mean. It's ALWAYS been mean.
But now straight white xtian men are feeling very threatened and paranoid because they are rapidly becoming a minority, so they have thrown off all restraints and not even trying to hid it anymore.
Ask any gay person or any woman or POC how un-mean America has always been to them.
| by Anonymous | reply 16 | August 14, 2023 8:41 PM |
Low iq people need force sterilization. Sorry not sorry.
| by Anonymous | reply 17 | August 14, 2023 8:41 PM |
R16: They hate they now have to compete with women and minorities for things.
| by Anonymous | reply 18 | August 14, 2023 8:44 PM |
So they can't afford to be mediocre anymore.
| by Anonymous | reply 19 | August 14, 2023 8:44 PM |
Under first term Obama, there was still a bit of civility. R5 is right. Trump greased the ember fire of disgust and evil.
| by Anonymous | reply 20 | August 14, 2023 8:53 PM |
I am not usually a giant, David Brooks fan, but he is spot on in this article. You all really should give it a read. From the looks of most of the comments, here, if not all, it would appear that no one has bothered to do that before criticizing it.
| by Anonymous | reply 21 | August 14, 2023 9:00 PM |
^ Too bad we can't read it because it is FUCKING PAYWALLED!
| by Anonymous | reply 22 | August 14, 2023 9:02 PM |
Stopped reading at "millions of whites are terrified of becoming a minority". No mention of crime demographics, or those who come in here expecting to be put up in hotels.
| by Anonymous | reply 23 | August 14, 2023 9:06 PM |
I think people have stopped caring about others.
| by Anonymous | reply 24 | August 14, 2023 9:07 PM |
People are shitty but global warming is coming to solve the problem. Mother Nature doesn’t lose.
| by Anonymous | reply 25 | August 14, 2023 9:16 PM |
I'm a poc delivery driver - gay Chicano. I'm scared to go into white people neighborhoods not black neighborhoods. White ppl are scary ppl. Not just the general population, but the cops in them neighborhoods gives me the chills. America has always been mean. Genocide, enslavement, Jim Crow, atomic bombs, Japanese detainment.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
LBJ
| by Anonymous | reply 26 | August 14, 2023 9:27 PM |
Datalounge is a good example of the change in society. I have been here since day 1. Snark has been replaced by insults and attacks, but there is still good conversation and wit among many posters.
| by Anonymous | reply 27 | August 14, 2023 9:33 PM |
I agree that it is the internet People have always been mean but never realized they belonged to a big group so learned that they could voice it instead of holding it in.
I also think Trump had a great deal to do with it too.
| by Anonymous | reply 28 | August 14, 2023 9:34 PM |
[QUOTE] I'm scared to go into white people neighborhoods not black neighborhoods.
Sure Jan.
| by Anonymous | reply 29 | August 14, 2023 9:35 PM |
This idea that Americans are nice is puzzling to me. At best we have a decent level of basic civil discourse when it comes to interacting at the supermarket or wherever. And service in the US is miles beyond what you get in Europe. But that politeness is purely transactional.
At the core of it, Americans on the whole are no nicer than anybody else and our cultural of individualism gives rise to both egomania and envy.
| by Anonymous | reply 30 | August 14, 2023 9:36 PM |
I'm afraid to go anywhere and just stay at home. People are crazy no matter where you are.
| by Anonymous | reply 31 | August 14, 2023 9:37 PM |
Trump gave his base permission to openly and freely express their hateful views.
| by Anonymous | reply 32 | August 14, 2023 9:38 PM |
[QUOTE] White ppl are scary ppl.
Mary!
| by Anonymous | reply 33 | August 14, 2023 9:39 PM |
Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh were a couple of the most hateful first instigators. It's only gotten to rock bottom with Trump, Taylor-Greene, McConnell, Boebert, Gaitz, McCarthy, etc.
And yes, of course, the Internet and social media.
| by Anonymous | reply 34 | August 14, 2023 9:52 PM |
Unpaywalled. Because I'm NICE.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 35 | August 14, 2023 10:01 PM |
No discussion of David Brooks is complete without this fond remembrance of one of his greatest hits:
[quote]Recently I took a friend with only a high school degree to lunch. Insensitively, I led her into a gourmet sandwich shop. Suddenly I saw her face freeze up as she was confronted with sandwiches named “Padrino” and “Pomodoro” and ingredients like soppressata, capicollo and a striata baguette. I quickly asked her if she wanted to go somewhere else and she anxiously nodded yes and we ate Mexican.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 36 | August 14, 2023 10:09 PM |
GET mean?
It was civil to break hundreds of agreements and treaties with American Indians, support and maintain slavery as a constitutionally protected fact, deny women the vote until the 20th century, deny equal pay for just about anyone who wasn't a white male, lynch blacks by the hundreds, set the conflagration of a civil war to protect slavery, do to other countries what would not be tolerated in the USA, and support the incarceration and worse of gay people, trans people, anyone not fitting the false image of a good American?
All that social media, other tech, the perversion of public education, propagandistic politics celebrating the basest commonalities of bigotry and hate, and the gospel of greed have done is shake up the old order a little to make it more effective.
The Civil War never ended, the fight between one set of elites and another continues, and there is nothing new under the sun except a different fury we have brought into our wildfires.
| by Anonymous | reply 37 | August 14, 2023 10:19 PM |
What everybody already has posted.
Through in dog-eat-dog capitalism, where basic health care is commodified, and life in the USA truly is nasty, brutish and short.
| by Anonymous | reply 38 | August 14, 2023 10:19 PM |
The right bought all the low power TV and radio stations as part of their campaign to do exactly what they have achieved beginning in the 1960s. That media became fertile ground for right wing talk once the fairness doctrine was ultimately euthanized by Bill Clinton(!).
| by Anonymous | reply 39 | August 14, 2023 10:22 PM |
Ooops, through in- Throw in
| by Anonymous | reply 40 | August 14, 2023 10:25 PM |
R8 Exactly what time period in US history were whites not against blacks?
I’m always really confused when whites act like racism is this new thing. As if whites and blacks haven’t been divided from the beginning.
And it’s really scary people think this.
| by Anonymous | reply 41 | August 14, 2023 10:31 PM |
And I think Americans have always been like this and social media just exposes it. Just like social media exposes how dumb celebrities are.
| by Anonymous | reply 42 | August 14, 2023 10:34 PM |
Phyllis Beakly said there were Jewish satellites with lasers pointed for anybody that was in a Protestant church. She tells everyone she lives in a very nice"modular " home. Well I've been there, it is a single wide trailer if anything! Gold shag carpeting, dark wood paneling and a velvet painting of Jesus and the twelve apostles. I believe she purchased all the furnishings at Badcock 20 some odd years ago.
| by Anonymous | reply 43 | August 14, 2023 10:37 PM |
Puerile repug fantasies .Mayberry was on a backlot in Culver City. The reality of American "small town values" of "kindness and consideration" was somewhat different...
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 44 | August 15, 2023 3:41 AM |
Lee Atwater and Donald Rumsfeld started the fire.
| by Anonymous | reply 45 | August 15, 2023 4:24 AM |
I keep hoping it's a faze, like a cycle which will correct itself. Throw positive thoughts out into the universe and maybe it will happen faster.
| by Anonymous | reply 46 | August 15, 2023 4:24 AM |
People like the status quo and are resistant to change. No matter how many times terms like equity are defined, there are some people who will always believe that they will lose out at the expense of others.
| by Anonymous | reply 47 | August 15, 2023 12:53 PM |
I still blame Rush Limbaugh and Ronald Reagan.
| by Anonymous | reply 49 | August 15, 2023 2:26 PM |
[quote]Exactly what time period in US history were whites not against blacks?
Exhibit A for the proposition that racial discourse has now descended into ahistorical incoherence. R41 has apparently never heard of 18th century abolitionist movements, William Wilburforce (b. 1759), Henry David Thoreau, Quakers, the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s in which blacks and whites marched together, and were lynched together etc.
No, racism is not a new thing. But careless generalizations like the above quote harms the project of equal rights. They are counterproductive.
To answer the question: just look at the numbers. Blacks, only a fraction of the population, would never have been able to force the enactment of civil rights laws, without the active and enthusiastic participation of whites.
| by Anonymous | reply 50 | August 15, 2023 2:52 PM |
R50 just "Not All!"-ed the discussion. Ugh.
When people say "Whites are racist", they're not lying. It's a MAJORITY of Whites in this country. Trying to deny that by saying "but but but CIVIL RIGHTS!" is dishonest.
| by Anonymous | reply 51 | August 15, 2023 3:03 PM |
[QUOTE] I keep hoping it's a faze
Oh dear. But usually people incorrectly use "phase" when they mean "faze".
| by Anonymous | reply 52 | August 15, 2023 3:13 PM |
If America is so unbearably racist, why do we see so many non-whites clamoring to get in here -- even risking their lives to cross a border?
| by Anonymous | reply 53 | August 15, 2023 3:16 PM |
R51 Exhibit B for the proposition. Thanks for continuing to offer evidence against your own argument.
Keep it up. This is fun.
| by Anonymous | reply 54 | August 15, 2023 3:17 PM |
R25 Mother Nature doesn’t lose?
Ho please.
| by Anonymous | reply 55 | August 15, 2023 3:20 PM |
Because they know they can get unlimited free stays in luxury hotels here, R53.
| by Anonymous | reply 56 | August 15, 2023 3:22 PM |
Never heard of those guy but this:
[quote]Recently I took a friend with only a high school degree to lunch. Insensitively, I led her into a gourmet sandwich shop.
is ridiculous bullshit. If you don't have a college degree you get scared and confused by sandwich meats?
| by Anonymous | reply 57 | August 15, 2023 3:22 PM |
R53 denying systemic racism and assuming everyone else knows and understands its existence, like YOU know the details of the societies in other countries.
And no, R54, don't pull that right wing "you're just proving my point" bullshit. Stop it. Sit down. You don't know what you're talking about, and it's clear you have no Black friends.
| by Anonymous | reply 58 | August 15, 2023 3:23 PM |
The troll calling itself pastaboi needs a more suitable location for its trolling. Not sure what it's doing here.
| by Anonymous | reply 59 | August 15, 2023 3:25 PM |
R58 it's a legitimate question. We hear constantly about "systemic racism" from those who are native born, yet we see blacks from Haiti and browns from all over Latin America desperate to enter this country. There's a disconnect.
If it was truly that awful here they wouldn't try to enter. They'd choose another nation. Go to China. Go to Gaza.
| by Anonymous | reply 60 | August 15, 2023 3:30 PM |
[quote]And no, [R54], don't pull that right wing "you're just proving my point" bullshit. Stop it. Sit down. You don't know what you're talking about and it’s clear you have no Black friends.
Exhibit C for the proposition that civil rights discourse in the US has descended into incoherence. It’s clear that the formal education of r41 r58 began (and ended) in about 2014.
| by Anonymous | reply 61 | August 15, 2023 3:39 PM |
But having said that, my apologies for my unkind comments, r58. Uncalled for. Just wanted to observe that in my time on the planet, the conversation has gotten more divisive and polarized than it used to be.
Cause: social media and internet imo.
| by Anonymous | reply 62 | August 15, 2023 4:02 PM |
The only one being incoherent here is you, 61. Please. Just stop.
The conversation is not "more divisive", the conversation is just more shrill because the White Supremacists are more and more terrified they're losing their utter control and dominance. Obama as President broke their brains. The problem is NOT with the people pushing for racial equity and civil rights. The problem is the OTHER side has gone off the deep end, and are getting to the point where they are actively considering genocide as a "solution" the "problem" of minorities and LGBT people getting all uppity and not "knowing their place".
Pointing out and educating people about the existing systemic racism and its consequences is not "being racist" and is not inherently "divisive" except to those who are already racist. Get it?
| by Anonymous | reply 63 | August 15, 2023 4:19 PM |
Republicans and Conservatives are canceling AP African History courses in Red States, banning the teaching of Black American History, and trying to make Slavery seem like it was a good thing for slaves... and you think THAT'S not the source of divisiveness?
| by Anonymous | reply 64 | August 15, 2023 4:22 PM |
Nobody, but nobody, has claimed slavery was a good thing for slaves jfc.
| by Anonymous | reply 65 | August 15, 2023 4:48 PM |
^^^the recent statement, referring to skills that slaves learned, referred to black resilience, not that slavery was good for slaves.
And nobody is trying to ban instruction on black history.
| by Anonymous | reply 66 | August 15, 2023 4:53 PM |
It's just so interesting that right-wingers like Brooks fail (or refuse) to see the effects of their preferred brand of unfettered capitalism.
| by Anonymous | reply 67 | August 15, 2023 4:54 PM |
Agree that unfettered capitalism has been disastrous for us. Not sure Brooks subscribes to that, though. He’s talking about something else in the article though.
Thank you r35 you’re a doll.
| by Anonymous | reply 68 | August 15, 2023 5:00 PM |
[quote]Nobody but DeSatan has claimed slavery was a good thing for slaves jfc.
Fixed.
| by Anonymous | reply 69 | August 15, 2023 5:04 PM |
This idea of a homogenous America is absolutely not true and never was. There have always been "sides" and now it's not just the haves v. the have nots or people of color v. not, it's all the political and religious stuff too and having to "choose sides" - encouraged by leaders of both. No longer are we told to keep calm and carry on, co-exist. We must STATE OUR BOUNDARIES and post yard signs and emblazen our oh so important beliefs on social media and our walls, cars and every else, just in case someone missed our virtue signaling. (Whatever "virtue" that is)
Covid was the final nail in the coffin, we all became our own safety bubbles, we learned to distrust everyone and keep to ourselves as our only line of defense. We were like cats in a sack when first re-introduced to society after the Covid bans lifted, and still haven't re-learned how to co-exist very well without being offended ourselves, and pissing everyone else off because we did something out of line.
Very few people have grace, humor, or tolerance anymore. Everyone must be canceled. Every infraction must be posted on social media. BANG THE DRUM!
| by Anonymous | reply 70 | August 15, 2023 5:31 PM |
I blame social media. As far as covid goes if people went batshit over some isolation they are weak minded anyway. They still had the evil social media, tv and phones to connect.
| by Anonymous | reply 71 | August 15, 2023 5:48 PM |
R67 Brooks is a Hillary supporter now, just like all the other Neocons.
| by Anonymous | reply 72 | August 15, 2023 7:59 PM |
We've always been mean. We just learned to hide it. Social media allows us to highlight it. As a kid I once remarked how during the great depression everyone pulled together and my Dad and his friends who were there guffawed and proceeded to tell me the horrific stories...neighbors gathering to laugh while someone was evicted, people beating cats and dogs just for fun...
| by Anonymous | reply 73 | August 15, 2023 8:36 PM |
That it started as a prison colony didn't help. Then Came the worlds greedy and desperate. What could go wrong.
| by Anonymous | reply 74 | August 15, 2023 8:47 PM |
R66 is in denial or just plain delusional. Either way, they are TOTALLY fucking wrong.
| by Anonymous | reply 75 | August 15, 2023 9:30 PM |
It’s not a controversial statement, r75. The point comes from the College Board's advanced placement class in African American studies—the same AP course DeSantis refused to certify for use in Florida.
[quote]In addition to agricultural work, enslaved people learned specialized trades and worked as painters, carpenters, tailors, musicians and healers in the North and South. Once free, African Americans used these skills to provide for themselves and others.
| by Anonymous | reply 76 | August 15, 2023 11:43 PM |
The implication is that these "slaves" had no skills when brought over from Africa, which couldn't be further from the truth. It's racist nonsense.
| by Anonymous | reply 77 | August 16, 2023 12:34 AM |
Primarily it is due to the right-wing propaganda machine. Rupert Murdoch, Rush Limbaugh, Fox and their long list of bad actors. Add to that the social media with few guardrails and top it off with Trump, and you have a toxic maelstrom a division in civility. When progressives or centrist true to talk facts or fight back, they are painted as communist or evil. But don't forget, this is what the top 1% of richest people want. To keep the bottom 99% fighting amongst themselves while they keep getting richer and we all have diminishing earnings, worse benefits and health care, and worse quality of life than our parents. This can all backfire though because if democracy collapses in the US, it will have a ripple effect economically globally and all the annual income and passive earnings will come to a halt for the rich as well. This is what happens when people are greedy and power hungry and do not learn from history.
| by Anonymous | reply 78 | August 16, 2023 2:20 AM |
R77 so you think it’s preferable that AP students of African American history learn that generation after generation, enslaved people acquired zero new knowledge or skills, I guess ..
| by Anonymous | reply 79 | August 16, 2023 2:38 AM |
God I hate that Robin DiAngelo for teaching upper middle class that to prove they aren’t racist they have to turn every thread in to a lecture on race, regardless of the subject.
| by Anonymous | reply 80 | August 16, 2023 3:11 AM |
America was always mean. Trump made it okay to lift the filter and let it out. People were careful before. Now it is wide open. The Repugs have been dirty underneath forever. Trump made it okay to be out loud about it. Conservative Repugs have been nasty underneath forever. Reagan started the anti-union, anti-welfare, anti-working class support when he was gov of CA. And they bought it.
| by Anonymous | reply 81 | August 16, 2023 4:19 AM |
Oh fucking jesus christ, R79, you can't be serious.
| by Anonymous | reply 82 | August 16, 2023 4:52 AM |
God says you have suffer or it’s socialism!
| by Anonymous | reply 83 | August 16, 2023 5:00 AM |
Here's a visual aid to help understand:
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 84 | August 16, 2023 4:13 PM |
In case you can't see r84's cartoon.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 85 | August 16, 2023 4:18 PM |
R79...the point is Africans and their descendants were brought to the Americas as slaves...forced labor. It makes no difference whether an African-American learned to be a blacksmith under slavery. The entire structure under which he lived and worked embodied terror and no control over your own life
| by Anonymous | reply 86 | August 16, 2023 4:31 PM |
^ but at least I learned a skill!
| by Anonymous | reply 87 | August 16, 2023 4:34 PM |
R37 nailed it. Americans—and human beings—have ever been thus.
David Brooks is an intellectual lightweight who always thinks he’s discovering cultural and societal trends—and he reasons from his conclusions and then marshals evidence to “prove” his point.
| by Anonymous | reply 88 | August 16, 2023 4:41 PM |
R6 deserves a Nobel Prize for that post.
| by Anonymous | reply 89 | August 16, 2023 4:46 PM |
[quote]It makes no difference whether an African-American learned to be a blacksmith under slavery. The entire structure under which he lived and worked embodied terror and no control over your own life
See what you’re saying, but have to disagree that it “makes no difference.” It made a difference to the blacksmith if after the Civil War/Emancipation he were able to use those same skills.
At least the College Board thought it was an important enough point to include in their Advanced Placement curriculum on African American history. Contact them if you feel so strongly about it.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 90 | August 16, 2023 5:51 PM |
Just stop, R90. I'm getting tired of you missing the point. Have a seat.
| by Anonymous | reply 91 | August 16, 2023 6:56 PM |
America has always been mean. Not news.
| by Anonymous | reply 92 | August 16, 2023 6:57 PM |
Social media. Smartphones captured police brutality as well as gave wokesters and MAGATS a broad platform to express their views.
| by Anonymous | reply 93 | August 16, 2023 7:00 PM |
Simple: lack of access or desire for/ to higher education and no interest in exploring the world. Only 25% of Americans have a college degree and or passport. Americans have been conditioned to believe in god and fear others. I'm glad I'm older.
| by Anonymous | reply 94 | August 16, 2023 7:50 PM |
I finally finished Brooks' piece in the Atlantic. It is wonderful. It's insightful. It's in the wrong publication. It should be sent off by a cadre of more thoughtful, moral and ethical people to every far-right and right-wing blog, website and Facebook group.
The Nat'l Educ Assn should have to read it. Every college campus group should have to spend a day reading it out loud in an auditorium to undergrads and members of arts & humanities groups.
Instead of a faux-GOP "debate", those 8 morons should also have to read it out loud to their captive audience. If not them, then MTG, Matt Gaetz, and other crazy members of the House should be forced to read Brook's' work from the floor of the chamber
And there's a piece early in this issue titled, The Resilience Gap by Jill Filipovic. It too needs to be read out loud by every SJW, in public, behind a microphone.
| by Anonymous | reply 95 | August 22, 2023 11:44 PM |
[quote]The majority of people are stressed out trying to earn a buck to survive, uncertain whether they can access basic necessities like affordable healthcare and housing, and the richest of the rich just keep amassing wealth like dragons while amplifying through media divisive issues that keep the population focused on fighting with each other rather than facing up to our collective economic reality.
I almost wonder if Americans have been through something like this before ... like, IDK, the Great Depression.
I would be genuinely curious if everyone turned into dicks during that time. I suspect yes, but not to the degree we are dealing with now.
| by Anonymous | reply 96 | August 22, 2023 11:54 PM |
Even during the Great Depression people acted more civilized towards each other. It's the fact that conservative now only get their news from right-wing propaganda machine and social media echo chamber rather than a journalistic focused newspaper.
| by Anonymous | reply 97 | August 22, 2023 11:57 PM |
It's like David Brooks is on a lifelong quest to prove that his lifelong quest to support Ayn Rand selfishness bullshit, and Nixon's selfishness bullshit, and Ronald Reagan selfishness bullshit, and George W Bush selfishness bullshit, and Donald Trump selfishness bullshit has actually never had any effect.
It's entirely those dirty 1960s hippies that ruined everything.
Well, you know what? Fuck you, David Brooks and every cunt that ever voted for any Republican in the past 50 years. You built this shit. Own it, you whores.
| by Anonymous | reply 99 | August 23, 2023 12:04 AM |
R99 David Brooks was just one of the big cogs in the selfishness bullshit wheel of trickle down economics
| by Anonymous | reply 101 | August 23, 2023 12:10 AM |
Reagan, The Moral Majority, The Christian Coalition and the rise of right wing-gun toting-wealth obsessed Jesus
| by Anonymous | reply 102 | August 23, 2023 12:10 AM |
R99, r100, r101, those are your takeaways from the piece in the Atlantic? Really?
| by Anonymous | reply 103 | August 23, 2023 12:13 AM |
Hating in the name of the Lord
| by Anonymous | reply 104 | August 23, 2023 12:15 AM |
R103, not every comment has to be the 'key take-away'... it can be one of many take-aways, or just something they wanted to comment on in the moment.
| by Anonymous | reply 105 | August 23, 2023 12:28 AM |
Brooks put his finger in the wind and decided it was time to shift away from these people. He's concerned about his image.
| by Anonymous | reply 106 | August 23, 2023 12:38 AM |
I think reality tv shows have played a part in it.
| by Anonymous | reply 107 | August 23, 2023 12:40 AM |
My takeaway, r103, is the more intelligent people who invariably urge everybody to vote Republican every time periodically realize the shit they cause and turn away in horror and disgust at where that leads, and then decide that it is everybody's fault but their own. Fuck them, and the fucking cult they rode in on.
Kill this goddamn party and everything it stands for, and then we can all have a big discussion about morality and civility, and yes, meanness.
| by Anonymous | reply 108 | August 23, 2023 12:45 AM |
R108, your reply makes no sense. Brooks' article has nothing to do with voting for a GOP candidate... it's about the damage social scientists and others are seeing in society, due to individual loneliness. participating in politics is part of his article, but no where does he extoll Republicans or the previous president. What a number of comments to this thread demonstrate is that there are people who will simply shoot the messenger because they just don't like him.
| by Anonymous | reply 109 | August 23, 2023 10:28 AM |
The rift between white Americans started with Reagan, though the fighting only started later. The rich-poor gap grew exponentially under his policies of unregulated capitalism and the dreaded "trickle-down effect", which was always just a cynical ploy to keep the rich happy. Government services, including health and education, were eroded because they weren't part of the glorious capitalistic project, and the (fictitious) power of the individual was acclaimed. Government regulation was seen as evil interference with the rights of brilliant individuals who had created great wealth, rather than a necessary check on unlimited greed. The Tea Party grew out of the attempt to keep all that going under subsequent governments who wanted to smooth things out a bit, and no we're where we are.
Reagan doesn't nearly get enough shit thrown at him, IMO. The majority of Brits still remember Thatcher with contempt, but Reagan seems to get off easier, or else Americans don't properly understand how he screwed them.
| by Anonymous | reply 110 | August 23, 2023 12:34 PM |
Reagan was absolutely the worst and it's endlessly frustrating that he is so lionized. Nearly ALL the seeds of all the rotten fruits we're reaping now were sown during his administration.
| by Anonymous | reply 111 | August 23, 2023 1:30 PM |
Yes, the meanness actually did start under Reagan. The policies and the attitude however took years to ingrain itself into incivility. The right wing media gave the right-winger, the racists and the Christian fundamentalists license to be mean. Add to that all the money funneled into CPACs and you have a perfect storm for them to ignore the blatant immorality of someone like Trump. And from there it has become a cult of Trump, rather than conservative ideals. The whole plan of being conservative doesn't really exist anymore, it's just the MAGA dolts vs. everyone else. There is a poll that was released just a few days ago that show today's Republicans trust Trump more than they trust their family and close friends or their religious leaders. That's it in a nutshell.
| by Anonymous | reply 112 | August 23, 2023 1:41 PM |
[quote] shoot the messenger because they just don't like him
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 113 | August 23, 2023 2:51 PM |
People like Brooks, Morning Joe, et al. like to think that we were becoming a better country but the fact of the matter is that we were never a better country. A better country would have a better educational system, healthcare, and employment. A better country wouldn't let the nutwings from either side have a voice in the center. Donald Trump isn't the problem. He is a grifter who is using the mood to sell his product. So was Rush. If the audience didn't exist then Rush and Trump wouldn't either. Americans have killed Indians, raped and oppressed women, harmed gays, and day in and day out gone about to make life horrible for people of color. Hell most of white America was shocked by George Floyd's death but people of color know that happens everyday in this country in some way. Mean- Americans - especially white ones- should be grateful that people of color, gays, women, and the ghost of Native Americans don't rise up in meanness.
| by Anonymous | reply 114 | August 23, 2023 3:48 PM |
I honestly think the vast majority of you commenting (esp after my post at R95) have not read what David wrote.
You are parroting talking points about America picked up over the past 30 years.
Not one of you talk about how to reverse what is happening, not one post references the article.
You're contributing nothing to the topic of this thread, which is the piece in the Atlantic.
| by Anonymous | reply 115 | August 23, 2023 9:34 PM |
David Brooks was behind every Republican scheme since Tricky Dicky you dumbass - His Pontius Pilate hand washing is his biggest lie to date
A diabolical Republican to the end
| by Anonymous | reply 116 | August 23, 2023 9:49 PM |
Republicans are mostly for the elimination of SS, Medicare and all forms of welfare assistance, but they rarely campaign on it, because it is popular with their base, yet they almost always vote for measures to minimize or cut back funding for it.
| by Anonymous | reply 117 | August 23, 2023 10:06 PM |
R95, ByJupiter...I agree with you. Brooks makes a good argument, although some of the moral institutions which gave meaning and purpose to people's lives (the churches, for example) failed to adapt to changing mores and their eagerness to preserve the institution blinded them to problems within it (the sex abuse).
We've become too atomized...concerned only with ourselves and not about those around us. Even the wording of toilet paper during the pandemic reflects this.
Our leaders fail us...there are no FDRs, JFKs, MLKs, Eisenhowers, Chisolms, Jacksons to inspire us to be better.
I think some form of required national service might remedy our lack of empathy. For example high school seniors ought to spend two years before college of public service that brings him or her together with others of various economic and social backgrounds.
| by Anonymous | reply 118 | August 23, 2023 11:42 PM |
We live in a society where are leaders are torn down, not supported. The media and public constantly criticize every thing they do.
What do you mean about toilet paper? I’m curious.
| by Anonymous | reply 119 | August 24, 2023 12:17 AM |
^^^ Think r118 meant “hoarding” of toilet paper during the first weeks, months of the pandemic. Selfishness.
| by Anonymous | reply 122 | August 24, 2023 3:20 AM |
R118, the hoarding of toilet paper is a good example of how people really think of themselves and are somehow encouraged to do so by the kind of 'reporting' networks pump out 24/7 these days.
Creating more empathetic and kind people needs to begin much earlier than the end of high school. There is something having boys and girls in scouting, but as Brooks notes, what is it that the scout leaders teach?
Personally, I wish there were three levels of Civics taught during school - sixth, ninth, and senior year. And that passing Civics in 12th grade was a requirement for a diploma. At least graduates would have a basic understanding of how America was constructed and how it's designed to function.
| by Anonymous | reply 124 | August 24, 2023 10:12 AM |
